30 ans de guildes : La grande interview

Affronter un monstre élite possédant des millions de points de vie, braver les dangers de donjons, réussir l’exploit d’accomplir une suite de quêtes jugée impossible ou bénéficier l’aide de vos compagnons pour fabriquer la pièce d’armure de vos rêves...ces accomplissements sont bien plus ardus à réaliser si vous n’êtes pas membre d’une guilde dans votre jeu en ligne massivement multijoueur favoris. Une guilde dont le squelette est bien souvent constitué d’une hiérarchie, de règles, et à laquelle tout joueur doit contribuer à son échelle.

Si leur nom varie selon le type de MMO (une corporation dans le space-opera ou un clan également dans le médiéval-fantastique), leur dessein reste le même : rassembler des joueurs partageant les mêmes intérêts afin qu’ils puissent progresser ensemble et compléter les défis imaginés par les développeurs plus facilement.

Depuis les premiers titres de ce genre, des millions de guildes se sont succédées, parfois pluri-jeux (c’est-à-dire non cantonnées à une seule licence). Cependant, peu ont autant perduré que The Syndicate et New OutRiders.

Présentes dans ces vastes mondes persistants depuis les années 90, de nombreux jeux ont composé leur histoire et des milliers de joueurs sont passés dans leurs rangs. Si la première tire ses origines de Neverwinter Nights (un jeu vidéo sortie le 26 juin 1991 sur American Online, où elle s’installera un peu plus tard), sa forme actuelle a vu le jour le 10 février 1996, sur Meridian 59, alors en alpha. La seconde, qui fonctionne avec un système de joueurs par jeux dans des sections appelées royaumes, existe depuis fin 1992, et a été initialement créée sur The Shadow of Yserbius. Il s'agit d'un MUD (Multi-user dungeon) graphique sortie quelques mois plus tôt, un titre qui était disponible sur The Sierra Network (renommé ImagiNation Network en 1994), launcher de Sierra On-Line (le tout premier exclusivement dédié aux jeux en ligne).

Le 1er octobre 2010, The Syndicate a reçu le record de la plus ancienne guilde de jeu en ligne encore active, par le Guinness World Records. Cependant, dans le cadre de cette interview, il est important de préciser qu’il s’agit d’un record commercial (bien qu’avéré) généraliste. En effet, il est bien plus ardu pour d’autres guildes de prouver leur longévité du à la difficulté de retrouver des archives web datant d’il y a plus de trente ans, en sachant qu’Internet Archive (et son service la Wayback Machine), principale source d’annales numériques, n’existait pas avant 1996.
Ainsi, il ne s’agit pas à proprement parler du premier regroupement virtuel de joueurs et de joueuses à avoir vu le jour, mais du plus ancien — selon le Guinness — encore actif.

Ce 10 février, cette guilde fête ses 30 ans. Pour marquer le coup, je me suis entretenu avec elle et New OutRiders.

Dix personnes ont participé, quatre ont répondu à toutes les questions (ainsi, si certains pseudonymes ne reviennent pas dans plusieurs questions, c’est normal), exceptées quelques unes qui étaient exclusivement dédiées à The Syndicate. Leurs réponses sont bien évidemment précédées de leur nom : Sean Stalzer (fondateur et chef de The Syndicate), Tundrra (co-chef de New OutRiders), Lasarian (ex co-chef de N.O.R), Garadian (co-chef de N.O.R), Bard (ex co-chef de N.O.R), Aglavalin (ex co-chef de N.O.R), Monk (membre de T.S), Kitiara (membre de T.S), Coral (membre de T.S) et Kobalt (membre de T.S).

Voici la version anglaise de l'interview. La version française est en cours et sera publiée prochainement dans ce même article.

1) Why did you join this guild or why did you create it ?

Sean Stalzer : In our book, Legend of The Syndicate there is an entire story included as to the origins. The gist is that I was unable to locate a community that was friends first and that stuck together through challenging times, so I built one.

Monk : While I was in the Military on Active-Duty, I had the opportunity to participate as Beta Tester for Ultima Online. Within weeks of the game going live, I had finished my military obligation and the first thing I did when I came home was rebuild my PC, so I could continue playing Ultima Online. At that time I had my own guild, I was a counselor in Ultima Online. Life, at that moment, seemed awesome. Fast-forward a few years and the events of 9/11 not only changed the real world for me as a first responder in NYC, but it changed my virtual world as well.

I was recalled back to Active Duty, gaming would be put on hold. By the time I got home a few years later, my guild had dissolved. I was at a point in my life where I missed the camaraderie of the military and since being back home, I was missing the online community in which I had grown accustomed to through gaming. Within a few days of returning home, while playing Ultima Online, I stumbled upon a “Blue Book”. Blue Books are The Syndicate's way of “in-game” Recruitment Advertising. Upon reading it, I knew it was a perfect fit.

Everything I was missing, lacking and searching for was "there" in The Syndicate. I knew I was going to do whatever it took to be apart from them. Hook, line and sinker. I bit down and never looked back. Nearly 20 years later…here I am, a proud member of The Syndicate.

Kitiara : After WoW came out, my gaming friends all left Ultima Online and went to WoW. I stayed in UO and was playing alone, and had attended the Syndicate’s Crafters Day event a bunch of times. I primarily play tamers and crafters, and the guild seemed mature and helpful, and I liked its longevity as I remembered seeing LLTS tags around for years. Since the Syndicate took crafting seriously, I figured I could find my place there, so I applied.

Coral : About 15 years ago, after I'd been in the game for about a year, I joined a random guild, which, in time, became my own. My goal was to have a group of friends who could cross-over and stay friends even outside the game. It failed after 6 months. I then found out that someone I had become friends with in the game was in the recruiting process for The Syndicate, and he introduced me to some of the members in-game. I decided to give them a try, since it seemed they had already achieved that which I was looking for.

Kobalt : I had a hard time pulling the trigger when looking into joining a guild. I had been in a few guilds before and they fell away or imploded due to conflicts or ego. I had spent a lot of time solo playing. I read about the guild through some online sites and through the guild website. I even watched from in-game the interactions between some of the guild members and other guild members as well as outside people interacting with guild members. I continued coming back to seeing people play the game with respect towards others as well as honor within their interactions. The kicker for me was the Sunday event called Crafter's day where the guild provides gates to the guild castle to help new players or any players who need help with equipment or knowledge. I attended those before joining and felt welcome and valued.

Tundrra : I joined the guild in college because a close friend and roommate was already in the guild and had been for awhile. His mother was an officer when he joined shortly after high school, I remember watching him play The Realm a lot when we lived together, but I had not yet started playing any MMOs. At some point I moved away for a couple years and when I moved back he had started to play Star Wars Galaxies with the guild, and by that time a few of our other friends had joined the guild to play and I was a huge starwars fan in highschool so I joined up.

Lasarian : I was counter-recruited by two members/friends that I played a lot of The Shadow of Yserbius (TSoY) with. Taggarty and Simba … I think?

Garadian : In early 1995, while playing Neverwinter Nights on America Online, I ran into a friendly player named Gharak along with two others. It turned out he was in the vanguard of members from Yserbius coming over to that game to set up a new guild branch. After adventuring for a couple of weeks together, he extended an invitation to join the New OutRiders. I was not very familiar with gaming guilds at the time, though I did see some people with tags in their names. Since it was so enjoyable grouping with these people, I decided to accept the invitation to join and I haven’t looked back since.

2) Why did you stay?

Sean Stalzer : Literally and without exaggeration, over 300,000,000 other communities have risen and fallen since The Syndicate came to exist. No one else has built what we have built with virtually no turn-over, deep developer and gaming hardware manufacturer relationships, our own non-profit entity, our own for-profit entity, 24 years of an annual convention and so much more. The community is entirely friend focused with no drama. Would you leave such a group?

Monk : To be honest, while this is a great question, it's a question that never entered my mind. I guess because, since becoming a member, I never ever considered leaving. This was home. I started growing roots the very moment I was made a member. Granted, we're called a "Guild", but that's only face value. The Syndicate is leaps and bounds beyond being just a guild. I guess that's a big reason for our success.

We are like-minded people, of various ages (18- near 80's), with a multitude of different backgrounds and nationalities, scattered literally across the globe. With 1000+ members, yet we are family and we all care about each other as such. At any time, if someone needs anything... even an ear to listen, you'll never just get one. You'll get many. In The Syndicate, you are never alone.

If you need more, I'll offer you this…

As I previously mentioned, my initial reason for wanting to be a part of The Syndicate was the camaraderie, community and like in most aspects of people’s life, being around like-minded people. However, what I found here in The Syndicate was so much more!

As a gamer, I have had the honor and privilege to participate firsthand, to both the rise and fall of some lucrative game titles and companies. I’ve spent tremendous amounts of time with the most famous & infamous Developers and names in not just the MMO community but throughout the gaming world in general and even the celebrity field.

Amongst what I would call the greatest of friends, who I consider family, I was able to test and help mold “gaming projects” into popular games that thousands of people still play and enjoy to this day. Who wouldn’t want to be a part of this?

While all this sounds great, it’s barely touching the surface. What I’ve been able to experience here, over the last 20 years… is truly immeasurable.

The overall, greatest reason for me wanting to stay a member of this amazing guild, is its members. If for nothing else... the accolades, notoriety, experiences etc... It's our members. Our Syndicate Family! Long Live The Syndicate! (LLTS).

Kitiara : It’s a zero-drama guild, which makes it really a pleasure to play with everybody. I can look forward to my gaming time to de-stress and not add stress to my life, which I value highly because I don’t have a lot of time for gaming. I’ve made lifelong friends in the guild, which makes it even better, but in terms of game play it’s nice to play with adults that behave like adults and not circus clowns.

Coral : As answered in the first question, I wanted to be friends with others who thought like myself, and who could be trusted and counted on to become friends, even outside the game. I found them, and I don't want to give them up.

Kobalt : The people. With all of the research and digging I did I didn't understand just how the guild worked and how much it really does feel like other members treat you like family and they want you and the guild to succeed. Though life happens and you can't always be involved with everything going on when you are there you're always amongst family. It doesn't feel like you are playing a game, it feels like you are hanging out with friends and family as well as playing games.

Tundrra : Eventually the real-life friends left for other games and console games, I had been waiting for everquest 2 to launch for a long time. So by the time it did, Galaxies had already done some major game changes and the magic was gone, so when Everquest II finally launched the guild leaders at the time were preparing and organizing on the forums to create the next realm of the guild in Everquest II so i was excited to move to that game as it was formed.

Lasarian : That’s a pretty big question and the answer is probably different from year to year. Looking back on my 30 years as a member, today, probably its longevity and its source of my friendships that have lasted decades and far outgrew their humble online beginnings.

Garadian : I have made many friends and connections in my time in the New OutRiders. We make a promise upon our induction into the guild to mutually support each other and to help others, which I highly enjoy. Between the people I have met and gotten to know enough to consider friends and our guild’s principles, I find it is the guild that fits my playstyle and personality the best.

3) How would you describe your sense of belonging to your guild?

Sean Stalzer : The Syndicate, at its core, is a team of friends. We believe very strongly in recruiting the person and not the toon, and in recruiting people with similar values to the rest of the community. Games are a tool that we use to build our community. With that core focus, members do not join The Syndicate for a game or to beat specific content. They join it to build friendships that can last, literally, 3 or more decades. As such, we all tend to develop a sense of belonging... of giving back to the community.. of getting out what we invest in.

Tundrra : That is a tough one to describe. People tend to be a part of something and share that experience with others, they desire to socialize with others. The analogy that

comes to my mind is some folks want to go to church, something they can look forward to

weekly and plan for. Others will join a sports club, or attend a weekly game of cards. What

ever it is people want a hobby and people to share it with. So the guild is mine, i look forward

to the events each week, I enjoy the conversation with the members, so the sense of belonging is formed.

Lasarian : I would say my sense of belonging is mutual. I belong to NOR and NOR belongs to me.

Garadian : I have always felt that no matter which game, or whomever I talk to in our guild, it

feels perfectly natural and comfortable. I have never felt uncomfortable actually,

so it’s definitely a home away from home in my hobby of gaming.

4) How did you get involved in certain guild activities, both in-game and/or IRL?

Sean Stalzer : We offer both in game and real life. We have an annual conference.. lan parties.. board gaming weekends.. monthly dinners.. real life feedback sessions to developers and manufacturers... and all of the in-game things you would expect from raids to game nights and much more.

Tundrra : I take little pleasure in solo game play, that is one of the big reasons pc mmorpgs are my preferred gaming platform over console. So from the very beginning of me joining NOR was to attend dungeon runs and raids.

Lasarian : Originally I was asked to assume a leadership role for an outgoing officer, since then if I saw an unmet need that I thought or a way to do something better that I could contribute, I would.

Garadian : While I have not attended an IRL event, and they do happen, but not too frequently, as far as other guild activities, involvement comes from just hanging out with gaming friends and trying new or challenging things in our games.

5) What part of being a member or the leader is most valuable or most meaningful to you ?

Sean Stalzer : It is all about the people. The relationships make the guild strong and they are what is important and rewarding about leading the community.

Monk : Of all the questions asked in this interview, this question hits home the most… It’s kind of complicated. Allow me to explain.

My path in The Syndicate has been extremely fortunate and privileged. It could have happened to any of our members really. I'm pretty certain all of them would have done the same or maybe a better job than I, if they were given the chance. I was just lucky enough to find myself in the right place at the right opportune times.

This fortune placed me in a position to experience the most incredible, amazing yet rare opportunities, within The Syndicate. This usually happens due to the misfortune of others, which is the sad part. Things happened to other members, which created odd circumstances, which led to holes needing to be filled and I just happened to be there.

For example, when I had just completed my Recruiting Process and became a member, I inquired about being a Recruiter. The rule then was, a member needed to wait at least 6-8 weeks of being in the guild, to learn the ropes of how the guild operates, as well as earn the guild’s trust, before being allowed to recruit for us.

This makes total sense, so I was prepared to wait out the 6-8 weeks before inquiring again. However, just under 4 weeks later, a few of our Recruiters had to step away from gaming for personal reasons, thus opening up an opportunity for me. A few months later, our Head Recruiter at the time resigned to participate with our guild on the World of Warcraft side.

Apparently, during the time I was Recruiting for the guild, I had been casually speaking with the then Recruit Team about ways I believed could potentially improve what we were doing. Unbeknownst to me, these conversations landed on Dragons’ desk. Fortunately for me, when the opportunity arose after the previous Head Recruiter resigned, I was offered the position, which I still proudly hold today.

Dragons and I had some great conversations, to which he bestowed great trust in me. He pretty much said, “run with your ideas and let’s see what happens”. We wasted no time and put together a remarkable Recruit Team that is still Second to None! Together we completely revamped The Syndicate’s Recruiting Process into the dynamic juggernaut it is today. We spent over 6 months daily on the job training bringing each Recruiter up to par.

Two of the original five Recruiters are still doing the job today! They are the heart and soul of The Syndicate’s Recruiting and they are hands down the absolute best in the business… and I don’t mean this figuratively.

The Syndicate is the Premier Online Gaming Guild/Community in the world. Most of our members over the last nearly 20 years have come through their process… and continue to do so today.

Over the last 19+ years, this Recruiting Process in Ultima Online, has vetted over 5k applications that were accepted into the process (over 15k declined/not accepted for various reasons). Just over 600 members completed the process and were found to be “like-minded”, thus were accepted into the guild. With a near 90% retention rate... I'd say our Recruit Teams work efforts speak volumes for itself. This type of Recruitment, with this quality of Recruiters… can never and will never be replicated by any other guild.

In a guild as large and historical as ours, being afforded the opportunity to find those needles in a field of haystacks, those quality members, who become family, in our guild is the most valuable and meaningful to me.

Kitiara : The people and friendships we’ve forged, and the security that comes with the fact that what happens in the guild stays in the guild. There’s mutual respect and trust even though we’re all from different backgrounds.

Coral : Knowing that I could (potentially) go anywhere in the world, and if needed, I would have a place to stay and at least one trustworthy friend to visit with. Also, having real life friends in my part of the world who don't mind going places and trying new fun things to do.

Kobalt : Knowing the guild is there. Whether I want to chat, have questions, or want to play a game there are people that will be there. The opportunities that the Syndicate provides for testing games, having a diverse group from all around the world it feels like you have unique mindsets, pasts, and traditions that you wouldn't get without traveling, and finally reading the tales and information of what is happening in the guild that I might have not been present for.

Tundrra : As a guild master what is most meaningful is watching the guild continue to grow and seeing that new officer that really cares about making their individual realm integrate with our traditions into their game. So many players, if they do not join Discord, or the Forums back in the day, they just don't realize we are in other games. They just see their one game and log into it. So when you do find that officer that cares about the guild's history and wants to preserve it and keep it going, it warms my heart.

Lasarian : Taking my friends with me whenever I go.

Garadian : Again, it is the comfort of having friends with similar principles and interests. As the years go by though, I also want to give new members the same atmosphere and feel of joining and being part of it that I had so many years ago.

6) What's your best guild memory?

Sean Stalzer : There are far too many to list that rank in the top echelon of memories. Members have met and gotten married. Members have been picked up and dusted off when life knocked them down. Members have been supported through life's biggest challenges and tragedies. Members have celebrated massive life successes together. The best memory is the collection of all those up's and down's forming the underpinning of what makes THE most successful online gaming community in history.

Monk : Wow… there are so many, but as insignificant as it may sound considering our guilds history, my best memory was after only being in the guild for a few months and showing up to my first SyndCon. I remember walking down a long hallway with printed signs taped to the hotel walls that said “SyndCon” with an arrow directing us towards the main suites.

I remember only hearing kids screaming at each other and thinking to myself… “am I at the right place!?” When I walked into the initial suite, it was full of chairs but there was no one in sight. I just heard kids screaming at each other from another room in the back. I signed the sign in sheet and walked to the back room where the screaming was coming from (which was a bedroom), and there were three 10-year-old boys wrestling on the bed. Actually 2 of the bigger kids were pouncing on the smaller one… and the kid getting pounced on, was really pissed.

They all froze when I walked into the room and I asked if I was in the right place and where everyone was. They took a 5 second time out to tell me “yes” and direct me to the connecting room where the guild was hanging out, then continued on from where they left off.

Those 3 kids were children of Syndicate members. Those 3 kids are now Syndicate members themselves, with families and careers of their own. If you can wrap yourself around that… you’ll understand why it’s my best guild memory.

Kitiara : Since what happens in the guild stays in the guild, I cannot share the best of the best :) Having lunch with Richard Garriott/Lord British one year at SyndCon was wild. Becoming a Squad Leader was a great honor too.

Coral : All of my memories in and of this guild are the best, but I think the most impactful memory was during the planning of attending my second conference, the girls I'd met the year before asked me to room with them (to me, the feeling of being part of that meant everything). As we strengthen our friendship throughout the year, the love and welcome that is felt is magnified at the yearly conferences.

Kobalt : This was tough because the 'real life' times have been so good but one that really sticks out was an in-game time that was just shortly after joining the guild. The hunt we were on did not go well from people attacking us, to not knowing where exactly we were, or the best way to organize or evacuate. What made that experience stand out and why I look back on it so fondly is how the leadership handled it. Even though a few of us were completely lost, the hunt leader and squad leaders were incredibly patient, calm, and understanding. They took the time to explain what went wrong, how we could improve, and offered guidance on better organization. There was no ego, no blame, just a genuine effort to support and teach. It was unlike any other rough moment I’ve experienced in a guild.

Tundrra : A specific memory doesn't come to mind, but that satisfaction of finishing a successful raid with 16 individuals, or even a challenging dungeon with a small group.

Lasarian : That’s a really hard one to answer, there are probably several. For starters, I was friendly with a member back at the beginning and over time, his son joined us online and I became friendly with him as well … and over even more time, his son had a child, who also became a member, and I have hosted their family in my home over a group vacation. Three generations of members I have known personally. That’s special.

Garadian : There are so many that stand equal in my mind, but my strongest would be our

guild meetings in Neverwinter Nights. We always had a high turnout and really

fun chat that would last for hours as we met up in an in-game tavern.

7) Is there a particular game that you would have enjoyed in a different way if you hadn't played it with the guild?

Sean Stalzer : We are not a guild that exists for games. Rather, we are a community of friends, who have a shared passion for gaming so we use games to grow our friendships. Most groups exist for gaming.. or for a specific game. We use games to further our interest in building friendships and creating shared experiences.

Tundrra : No, I only seek out games with a guild component. In recent years I tried playing Baldur’s Gate III, which is an amazing game, but without the guild component and shared experience and socialization I quit playing it at the end of act one.

Lasarian : Probably … maybe? Yes, actually, because I know, I played WoW with another guild for quite a while before I re-found NOR.

Garadian : There are none. The social interaction of the guild is everything to me that makes

any game is enjoyable. I don’t think I would play MMOs without it.

8) In your opinion, which aspect of guilds do developers generally emphasize the least or develop poorly?

Sean Stalzer : Developers are generally focused on their specific game at the specific iteration of that game. What they often lose site of is the fact that some (often it is "many") of their guilds are aspiring communities that either currently span more than one game, or want to span more than one game. So they build systems that only support the ideas of their current game but miss out on building a system that can support a community that exists within their game and others. By way of example: We recruit the person, and not a specific toon. When we guild a "person" we want every character to be guilded (or at least to have that as an option). Instead, systems often focus on the idea that each toon is unique and unrelated to the single human controlling them. That creates overhead and a burden that can lead to member disconnects from their community. Or by way of example: They build in artificial limits like 500 toons. That ultimately leaves members of a community on the 'outside' with some toons and thus they get disconnected.

Monk : In The Syndicate, we legitimately have thousands upon thousands of man hours invested in not just playing and testing MMO’s, but a wide variety of games genres including single player console type games to tabletop board games as well as Virtual Tabletop games, such as D&D, Starwars etc.

If you go to our website LLTS.org (shameless plug) and click on our "History" page, you’ll get a better understanding of our accomplishments. With all of this comes a ridiculous amount of experience. We know what works and doesn’t work.

Ultima Online is the first real major MMO and we are one of the original guilds. In fact we were the only guild still in existence from those first days in Ultima Online. We are in their original game guide on page 124. We’ve Alpha & Beta tested games that are still at the forefront of today's gaming world, like Ultima Online and World of Warcraft, Skyrim etc. The Syndicate is actually a “mob” in WoW (Alliance side), because of all the extensive work we did for them. Granted World of Warcraft popularity has declined since its coming out party in 2004, but its incredible popularity had famous celebrities talking about their participation. Even a movie was made.

Other noteworthy names are Everquest, Starwars: The Old Republic, Skyrim, Shroud of the Avatar. The list goes on and on. The games that were successful were the games where the developers listened and were brave enough to shift gears and change courses if they had to. The Devs that chose to do the latter, had their games lost to the gaming void. I genuinely understand that some people reading this might think we’re simply boasting, bragging or patting ourselves on the bathe reality is, I'm stating documented facts.

We are in the Guinness Book of records since 2010 – Present, for a reason. Everything we do here in The Syndicate is on a “Volunteer” basis. Therefore, if you come to us for help with your game, and we as a guild, decide to invest our time, energy and resources in you, LISTEN to us! We want Developers to be successful so we can participate and play their successful games with our fellow Guildmates.

In short, I wish developers would come to us, asking for help, would trust us and heed our advice.

Kitiara : Supporting communities in general, be it through interface tools like in-game comms or out-of-game. In the mid-2000s Ultima Online used to travel the US holding Town Halls in different cities, which allowed not only in-person meeting but meeting players outside the guild as well as the dev team. I can’t imagine anything like that happening today.

Coral : Most in-game systems I use, or come into contact with, are satisfactory to me (in the game I play). I can play solo or with friends, and those needs are met daily. There are still aspects of the game that I still haven't explored yet, and having friends to do that with is a huge thing.

Kobalt : We are seeing more cooperative and shared missions in games these days, but most of them are intended for everyone in the player base, not for guilds. There isn't a way to move guild progress or identity between games. Every game is made by a different studio, therefore guilds can be difficult for long standing groups to actually have that sense of presence in a consistent manner across games if they cannot transfer progress.

Guilds can and need to be more than an in-game tag or chat room. What if there were game mechanics that allowed a guild to level as a collective group, through their achievements together. Raids, crafting initiatives, monthly seasonal activity where each person's activity contributed to their progress towards the one goal. Many games treat guilds like singular entities instead of a dynamic and persistent community space. That's also why what The Syndicate is and does does not get contained by just one game. We extend well beyond any game and since most games are not designed to create those types of experience, much of what we are exists outside of the confines of the games.

Tundrra : Each game is different of course, but some games really lack the guild tools to maintain its rosters. I'm playing Lord of the rings Online currently and their guild tools are very poor. There is no records log to view of players detagging, or of rank changes, there are no officer notes. It is very minimal.

Neverwinter set the standard for me; they did a great job. They have a guild house, their stronghold that gets visually more impressive as the guild level is increased. It offers member perks as the guild level increases. It even offers a guild raid! It allows for in-game alliances with other guilds. The in-game tools of officer notes, logs of changes are all recorded and accessible. When the game launched, it even had tools for guild chat and roster maintenance out of game through the website. It was amazing.

Other games have next to nothing other than the guild name above the character name and a guild chat. I am currently playing Lord of the Rings Online, and this game is 18 years old and has very poor guild features in contrast. It does not have a log of changes, so if a player detags and quits the guild, we get no notification. There is no officer note feature, only a player-controlled note. Minimal rank options. The devs have been hinting at new guild features coming, but no signs of what that might be.

Another horrible feature devs have applied in games like Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online that allows a member to join multiple guilds. This can decrease player activity in the guild as a player’s attention and loyalty are split.

Lasarian : I’m not sure what the state of play is now, but the developers were doing pretty good by about the time SWTOR came out. They allowed us to register our guild name and membership in advance, pick a server, and do a lot of ground work before the game even went public. On opening day, we were ready to go.

It seems to me that studios and developers tend to treat guilds as a kind of second thought. They acknowledge that they exist and they appear to begrudgingly make concessions in-game to that reality, but they seem to fail to harness the true potential of existing, long standing online guilds.

In NOR at least, our entire guild culture is about helping each other and other players in general. You don’t have to be a member to receive our aid. This includes guiding new players on game features, help with quests, advice, assistance, discouraging PKers or campers, reporting bots or cheaters … we are essentially free customer service reps to the game making the title more accessible or playable to new subscribers all while providing a safe, secure environment for our own members and our families. Our guild creates an environment that allows for more players to participate.

I have been a member of NOR now for over thirty years, I was an active participant in leadership for some appreciable portion of that. I have been present on opening day to several titles, including, Neverwinter, RIFT, Runes of Magic, SWTOR, Wow, GW2, Elder Scrolls Online, ArchAge, Age of Conan … in three decades we have never been approached by a single studio or developer to ask: “How can we roll out the red carpet for NOR and your 300+ members? What can we provide in-game to induce NOR to try our game and maybe endorse playing it? What do you guys need from us to draw you into our game?”

We are literally a captive audience of a known quantity (and quality), explicitly formed and maintained to play game online and any studio could replicate such an outreach a dozen or even a hundred times to bring thousands of ready-made, experienced, enthusiastic customers to their title on day one.

Why would you not do that?

It seems like a hugely missed opportunity to really put your best foot forward on a new title. Anyone doing even a cursory glance at our history would quickly learn that we have die-hard players that stick to their games, sometimes for decades (DDO and EQ2 spring to mind).

Garadian : I would like to see a mentorship system where experience boosts or other very helpful boosts would be applied from grouping in a game with guild officers. This would encourage more interaction with new recruits as we got to know them. I feel that modern games are a little too oriented toward solo character progression, and that takes away from the social aspect of beating challenges along the way together.

While the mechanics of a guild system in a game aren't truly what makes a guild (a good guild exists outside of the game,(it is the players). The game developers could probably throw us a bone here.

I think all games could use an inter-guild email system that lets you send messages to guildmates, both to all members and to all of a specific rank. By way of this, all games could use an option to add more guild ranks. Most games allow 9 or 10, but in a guild with a decent progression system, we could really use more.

A customizable guild house with all the amenities that a guild would need to use would be great with built-in permissions so we could assign ranks allowed to decorate or manage it. After this, a built in tracking/attendance tool for event attendees, an in-game bulletin board for guild members to easily message each other inside of a game would be a great thing along with a working calendar. Some games have this, some don't, but I've never seen it well-implemented.

My wishlist is more for management tools in the games, otherwise, I don't feel it is up to game devs to give a good guild experience, it is up to the guilds themselves.

9) Is there an upcoming MMO you're particularly looking forward to? If so, why?

Sean Stalzer : Stars Reach sounds interesting. We are fans of Raph and his team. We know Raph from the Ultima Online days and plenty of interactions since then so we have confidence in his vision of what makes a good game so we are excited to see his title develop.

Tundrra : There is rumor of a EverQuest III finally coming out and that would be my next mmo for sure, but it takes so long for a MMO to be developed it's hard to say it would ever launch.

Lasarian : Not really. My MMO days are probably behind me.

Garadian : Everquest III, if such a game comes out. I think it would be likely to return to older MMO styles of encouraging grouping throughout the entire game experience.

10) Do you think that MMOs have influenced/inspired other game genres ? If so, why?

Sean Stalzer : Sure. A huge number of games claim to be MMOs today but really aren't. They may have online or multiplayer aspects but they are not true MMOs like WoW or UO or Everquest. That is clear evidence that MMOs strongly influence gaming today to the point folks steal the acronym in a way to make their games more appealing to a wider audience.

Monk : Absolutely 10000%, MMO’s have unequivocally influenced the gaming industry in its entirety. Love him or hate him, but Richard Garriott, the creator of Ultima Online, the first real MMO changed the gaming world forever. Without him creating Ultima Online, there would be no Everquest, World of Warcraft, Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty etc…

We’d still be playing “Janes” single player flight sims, Sega, Nintendo etc, instead of Digital Combat Simulator (DCS world), War Thunder or MS Flight Sim. Where would Electronic Arts be today without all their EA Sports Online games? At the end of the day… I know we in The Syndicate have played a significant role, especially in the early days of gaming. It's been a surreal dream that I'm grateful to be taking part in. Getting to do it while being a proud Member of The Syndicate… I wouldn’t have it any other way!

Kitiara : I think MMOs have bred the kinds of players that like having a parallel reality - especially sandbox-style where players craft those realities. That interest in reality-building I think led to games like Second Life and Animal Crossing, the social-simulation style games, and also survival games with persistent worlds and player-run economies and such.

Coral : Yes, I think the MMOs have influenced /inspired other game genres in that more and more players are looking for friends that they can count on to be there, so the games are being geared for more of a social aspect, other than just 'playing' a game.

Lots of people these days are big into social activities but may not have tons of money or time; game playing on MMOs gives those people a chance to get together without having to make a real commitment or spend a ton of cash.

Kobalt : I'm not completely sure on all the ways but from what I have seen is that the concepts of worlds and games that exist whether you are logged in or not have been taken from MMOs. Customizing character's abilities and player based economies have been some of items I have seen in other games advertised.

Tundrra : Sure, the rise of mobile gaming trying to replicate the complicated massive RPG game, I think can be seen.

Lasarian :Yes, most certainly. When discussing your question with my wife, we speculated on the first appearance of the 'hotbar' in a game and how that has become a mainstay of many games since it was first used (whenever that was). As I am writing this, I am reminded of a conversation I had with a guild-mate when we were discussing the pros and cons of Rift vs Warcraft and I was bemoaning the stark similarities of the UI between the two, in my mind, Rift had an opportunity to set itself apart by making some changes and taking some risks, but his argument was that it was perfect in that, one could seamlessly move from WoW to Rift and understand the working mechanics of the game instantly with no learning curse, since all of the game function and tools were already familiar. He certainly made a valid point.

As the influence of the players themselves, again, I believe they most certainly have an impact, but studios are slow to either recognize these elements are reluctant to implement them. The perfect example is your own research into guilds. The very first games had no accommodations to this phenomenon while slowly, gradually, they became more and more apparent, available and robust as the games were clearly adapting to how the players used their games.

Garadian : The only ones I can think of offhand are Dragon’s Dogma and Baldur’s Gate III. They do have a distinctly MMO feel to them despite having single-player modes. The NPCs have a good feel to them and at times it does feel like grouping with other humans.

11) Do you think housing can be as much of a second home for a guild as forums, Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo, IRC chats or even a Discord server currently are? And to what extent?

Sean Stalzer : Not really. As I mentioned already, we use games to grow our friendships. We don't exist for games. It would be ill advised for a community, like ours, to build an identity so closely tied to a game.

Tundrra : No, not anymore, sure when mmos first game out especially Yserbius, the game was one big chat room and a place to hang out. But now with Discord, if you're not in-game actively playing then you have Discord to chat with throughout your day away from the computer.

Lasarian : Only if the guild exists in just one game. Cross game or platform guilds are going to need an agnostic environment for regular guild business.

Garadian : Guild housing can serve its social purpose. I am thinking of Final Fantasy XIV and Guild Wars 2 in particular. They can be a great place to meet up and interact socially. FFXIV has the advantage of being in a neighborhood too, so there is even the chance of involving players that aren’t even a part of the guild.

12) Have you always been playing the exact same games than your guild ? And if no, which ones have you played without your guild ?

Sean Stalzer : Sure. I play many games each year. I tend to only play them for 2 or 3 weeks until I master the mechanics and then it becomes a "rinse and repeat" process until you are done. I then move to the next game so I can see lots of different ones. Those are mostly solo. When you add the "online" part to it, I like Escape from Tarkov as a shooter that I play mostly solo. It never took off in huge popularity within the guild so its only occasionally that I partner up with another member.

Tundrra : Not always, in childhood it was console games Atari, Nintendo and Sega. However since joining the guild all my mmo choices are is the guild there, or can I establish and build a new branch of the guild there.

Lasarian : I probably always played MMOs with my guild, but occasionally on those games I would keep an untagged character just in case I needed a break. I certainly did play ALL the games NOR was on or is currently on, there was a time when that was 12 – 15 different games … I probably tried them or made appearances during Free to Play events, but did not devote myself to them.

And I do occasionally play some solo games outside of my guild, usually on Steam. Currently my guild activity is online table top games.

Garadian : I have played countless solo games, Dragon’s Dogma being my favorite, though I have tried other MMOs where New OutRiders was not, such as Wildstar and Earth and Beyond, though I quickly got bored without the guild interaction. So I generally only play games guild plays, though I did enjoy Hogwarts Legacy.

13) Is your guild really among the first to be created (bearing in mind that among the first games to allow the creation of clans/guilds there were Neverwinter Nights, Shadow of Yserbius, Fates of Twinion and Ruins of Crawdor, outside of the first popular games like Quake, Diablo and Meridian 59)?

Sean Stalzer : There were guilds that existed in the MUDs and MOOs. In fact, the origin story for The Syndicate (as told in our first book) came out of a failure of a guild in Meridian 59's beta that I was in and I wanted to make something better. The number of guilds in those days was under 100 at any given time and they came and went very fast as there was very little to hold a community together. Email was simplistic at best. There was no Discord or Ventrilo. IRC did exist but was overly complex for many people. AOL chatrooms existed but you couldn't easily make your own private one and no one wanted to pay-by-the-hour for AOLs service. So guilds is a very loose term and they were very short lived things.

Tundrra : I didn’t start playing mmorpgs until 2000ish so I never played Yserbius where the guild started. However I know there were definitely other guilds around. There were no guild tools like they have today, so if someone joined the guild then they would have to change their character name to “NORtundrra” to represent them being in the our guild.

Lasarian :To my knowledge there really were no guilds before our’s (and our contemporaries of course), or at least, before ImagiNation Network opened.

Garadian : Technically speaking, there have been gaming guilds going way back to the time of D&D by post, though I can’t name any. Though New OutRiders (Previously OutRiders, before that, NOMADS) goes back to 1992. There were other existent guilds. Our achievement is in continuing to exist in force since that time.

Also, a point of clarification, some of the older games, Neverwinter Nights, Shadow of Yserbius, etc. did not have actual in-game guild mechanics like the more modern games. We would instead create a new character with the guild initials in it. For example, my name is Garadian. When I joined the guild I created a character named NORGarad, or NORGaradian. In our biography section we would also post an indicator of which guild we were in. The GMs after a while (in Neverwinter Nights) would decide which guilds were ‘sanctioned’ or not and this would allow entry into official in-game community events that they would host.

Bard : My start was in Neverwinter Nights on AOL (around the end of 1996). At that time there were plenty of other guilds, just not many games. Neverwinter Nights was also my first online game.

Aglavalin : My first online game was NeverWinter Nights (NWN) on AOL. There were many guilds/groups as AOL gave each of us our own message board. I do not recall any of them claiming to be in existence before NWN, other than NOR. NOR was started in Shadow of Yserbius (YS). I subscribed to the Imagination Network (INN) and played YS for a while. I also subscribed and played The Realm (TR) for a while, where NOR had a branch at that time. When I joined the guild we were in two games YS and NWN.

14) I did some research in the past years into Quake clans (because it was one of the first popular games that included the possibility to form clans) and I did find on Internet Archive the Empire of Azeroth clan (I don’t know if it still exists, perhaps not, as their website is inactive), which, according to Quakeworld.nu (Quake encyclopedia), was created on February 27, 1996. Checking their website via Internet Archive, I saw that they consider themselves to be the oldest European clan and the sixth worldwide on Quake. Would you know which the other five world clans were? In addition, I also discovered a guild named Excalibur (that seems to come from ImagiNation Network), which was apparently already 14 years old in 2000? Any info about it (notably creation date and if it's still active)?

Sean Stalzer : No. We are the oldest, continuously operating community. It's the 2 words together (age + continual operation) that is our Guinness World Record. We did not invent the idea of a guild... but we have definitely perfected it as no one has been around anywhere remotely as long as we have and we have virtually no turnover.

So we definitely do not want to claim to have invented guilds. But we absolutely claim to be the oldest, continuously operating clan (as verified by the Guinness Book of World Records...and we are updating our record again now for the 30th year). They require independent and verifiable proof of the entire existence of the entity so it's a pretty rigorous standard.

Were there really no guilds in existence before yours/ Is your guild really among the first to be created? (bearing in mind that among the first games to allow the creation of clans/guilds there were Neverwinter Nights, Shadow of Yserbius, Fates of Twinion and Ruins of Crawdor, outside of the first popular games like Quake, Diablo and Meridian 59)?

Tundrra : I have no additional information.

Lasarian : I don’t know anything about Quake clans, sorry. There was an Excalibur guild in The Shadow of Yserbius.

Garadian : I am not familiar with Quake clans though I have heard the name Empire of Azeroth or at least seen it on some forum in the past. As far as knowing the other, I haven’t heard of them.

Bard : I do not know anything of those games nor guilds.

Aglavalin : I never played Quake and have no info on guilds in that game.

15) Where does the name of your guild come from?

Sean Stalzer : The idea on the very original webpage was a group of friends... that was very private... that saw much... influenced much... but the inner workings of which were largely a black box to those not part of the org. It was purely aspirational when we adopted it but it is reality now.

Tundrra : Lord Lasarian is probably the best source for the earliest of days, he mentions here how the original founders were in a guild called “NoMaDs” that splintered off to “Outriders” which splintered again in 1992 to become “The NewOutriders”.

In the early 2000’s one of the guild leaders at the time (Lady Mooskter) wrote up a pretty lengthy history of the guild.

Lasarian : The original guild was “The OutRiders” but several members broke off to form their own version and named it … not too originally, “The New OutRiders”.

Garadian : New OutRiders is a third iteration of a guild called NOMADS. That didn’t work out for long for reasons and a guild named OutRiders was formed. New OutRiders was the final form. Some of this was due to a cheating scandal in Shadow of Yserbius using a macro program. Our guild since is very particular about following each game's TOS and absolutely no cheating.

Bard : It came from a few members of a failed guild called the OutRiders who formed the New OutRiders.

Aglavalin : In ImagiNation Network there was a guild called Mercs. Some members left and started a guild called OutRiders and it fell apart soon after. Then four of those members started the New OutRiders in 1992.

16) On which online game was your guild founded and what was your first online game?

Sean Stalzer : We had aspects in Neverwinter Nights and in Meridian 59. We adopted the current name in Ultima Online.

Tundrra : Shadow of Yserbius was our founding game. I believe my first online games were either Ultima Online or Everquest, but I didn't play either very long.

Lasarian : We were founded on The Sierra Network, which ultimately became ImagiNation Network (INN) on the game The Shadow of Yserbius.

Garadian : New OutRiders was formed in Shadow of Yserbius on the Imagination Network (Sierra Network). My first graphical online game is Neverwinter Nights, though I did play a MUD called Avalon: The Legend Lives as early as 1989 or 1990.

Bard (first online game part) : The old Neverwinter Nights on AOL.

Aglavalin (first online game part) : My first online game was Neverwinter Nights. I started playing it in April/May of 1995 and joined NOR in May of 1995.

17) Do you think cheating was considered like a plague on online games in the 90’s?

Sean Stalzer : Cheating was much more common back then because there was no anti-cheat. So if a bad actor figured out something they could use it without being detected unless a dev happened to be in the game and saw them. No one was recording in game video either so folks could get away with it. Speedhacking was the main one but others like ESP and such were still prevalent.

Tundrra : I remember games like Star Wars Galaxies that could create in-game macros to harvest resources while out of game, so the game had this built in bot design. And I remember in Everquest II there was a huge problem with third parties mining loot, gold and speed leveling characters to resell outside of the game. Which caused a lot of problems for in game economy.

Lasarian : “Plague” is probably overstating it. The game was extremely simplistic, almost all of the entertainment came from interacting with other people in groups and the self-made (inflicted?) drama we created. There was a very simple cheat program called Vitamin F that was readily available that a lot of people used or tinkered with at the time.

Garadian : I would say it is no different than it is today. There are always people that will exploit a game for advancement or bragging rights even to this day, but overall, I wouldn’t say it was any worse than it is now.

Bard : It existed, but it was not as nearly as prevalent as it is now. I think a bit part of that is that back then you didn’t have the raw amount of gamers (nor games) at that time as playing video games online was still seen as that “nerdy” thing people with no friends did. Today, everyone has at least some sort of Candy Crush-like game on their phone.

Aglavalin : I do not recall any 'cheating' in the early online games I played. There were not any exploits that I knew of. People did steal from you when you were trading with them and they did not give what was promised. Some games, like Ultima Online, allowed pickpocketing items from a player’s backpack. But this was a game mechanic and not cheating. Being attacked by another player (PvP) was allowed in some games, but was not welcomed by everyone.

18) During your journey, do you remember when the first video recordings surfaced and were distributed via the Internet (so possibly at most 10 years before YouTube appeared)? And on which games (I guess at the time, they must have been compressed files that you could download to watch the video, and the first videos must probably have been about Quake, Diablo or Ultima, games like that, and only posted on “personal” or guild websites, and perhaps on a few sites entirely dedicated to video hosting)?

Sean Stalzer : There were very few early videos of Quake and other games. The culture of the entire world in the mid-90s knew nothing at all about streaming... or making video guides... or bragging about killing a boss. Strategy guides were printed books you bought in a store. They were not things you looked up on the internet at that time. Things didn't start to catch on until Youtube really offered folks that option.

Tundrra : I don't remember watching any video game videos till twitch and youtube became available to all. Before that it was finding gamer magazines or fan websites and forums.

Lasarian : I’m afraid I don’t, not really. Sorry. I’m sure I saw them, but I didn’t seek them out.

Garadian : I don’t remember specifically, but one that stands out in my memory is a flash video for recruiting from a guild in Anarchy Online from 2001. The reason I remember it is because the background music was Short Skirt/Long Jacket by Cake. If I remember right, it was an all Fixer class guild called the Shadow Syndicate.

Bard : The first videos I remember seeing of any MMO came from 989 Studios (which would eventually become Sony Online Entertainment) and their upcoming 3D MMO called “EverQuest”.

Aglavalin : I never saw any videos early on due to them being large files and dial up modems were rather slow. I do not think I saw any gaming videos until after cable modems were being used. And I do not remember when I first saw any gaming videos. It may have been on YouTube.

19) What has been your gaming background, from birth to now?

Sean Stalzer : I started with a little 16kb computer that was the very first home PC you could get. You had to type in every program you wanted it to run, every time you wanted it to run. I upgraded it to a cassette tape that I could back up some things to and load them back in but it didn't work well.

From there I expanded to other computers but the Commodore 64 was the main gaming computer for those late 80s. I played then (and still play now) just about everything out there.

Tundrra : Atari system was my first gaming system.

NES
Gameboy
PC games in highschool made by Sierra, I remember playing Kings Quest alot.
In the early years of college I didn't play much in electronic games, that's when I started playing dungeon and dragons and other tabletop rpg games.

Lasarian : Dungeons and Dragons, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Multi-users Dungeons, The Sierra Network, ImagiNation Network, etc., and pretty much played something online or otherwise. Before or during all of that, console games, Atari, TI, Sega, NES, etc. Much of my early gaming experience was table top, paper and pencil RPG like D&D, Gamma World, GURPs (role playing game systems).

Garadian : It’s been a long way from playing with sticks and rocks outdoors, but I do remember my dad coming home with Pong home version when I was tiny. From there it has only gotten better. Me and my brother both played on the TRS-80 home computer, Atari, Colecovision, pretty much all of those early consoles and I got into PC gaming as soon as I got one. Neverwinter Nights came naturally, as America Online would mail out free installation discs and that was their featured game.

Bard : My gaming background from then til now has run the gamut. Racing games, FPS (the original Call of Duty), PS1&2, Atari, Pong, that old Star Trek game on cassette drives for the TRS-80, PC standalone games, MMOs, etc. Even though I may meander a bit, I usually will end up gravitating back to RPG-related games (especially MMORPGs).

Aglavalin : I grew up in a home where we played games of all sorts on a regular basis. Card games like Hearts and Crazy Eights. All sorts of board games from Monopoly to Chess and everything in between. Our first video game at home was a PONG handheld device which plugged into the TV's antenna connection with two wires. Then we got a Colecovision game set which had an Atari 2800 adapter to play those cartridges. Then came a Nintendo Entertainment System (NES).

In 1980 I started playing Advanced Dungeon & Dragons on a regular basis. At least once a week with different groups of friends over the years. I still have all the books and the 100+ lead figurines which I had painted over the years. I got my first computer in 1987 and played a Star Trek text based space game on it. Went to computer conventions which were starting to be held and you could buy floppy disks with Shareware on them for cheap. I bought all sorts of games for it, often fantasy themed since I enjoyed playing AD&D.

Then I got my 386 online in about 1993. The first modem was a ZOOM 14,400 speed and it changed the world for me. I joined all the popular dial up services at the time like AOL, Prodigy, CompuServe, MSN. Then the World Wide Web grew into something which replaced those dial up services. My first online game was NWN, then YS, then The Realm(TR), Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, EverQuest, Diablo, and many others. Too many to remember them all.

I have played games like Star Trek Online, NeverWinter, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars the Old Republic, Star Citizen. I have done early beta testing for many games over the years. In 2015 I started streaming gaming on Twitch.tv and streamed more than 80 games over the next four years. I expanded the types of games I played.

I started playing a lot of the Survival games like ARK, Conan Exiles, Just Survive, Miscreated, and a lot of different style games. I have always prefered the types of games where you can wander around and explore and do what you are in the mood for. I have never been a fan of the first person shooter style of gaming. I do not like the linear game play where you are on rails and can usually only go in one direction. I have never owned a PlayStation or Xbox. I only played them a couple times.

I have always preferred games on computers as I find them more complex and fun. I have had a fetish for zombie games recently and have played quite a lot of them. I am currently playing Miscreated and No One Survived. I even spent 2000+ hours creating a 8k x 8k game level map for Miscreated and published it plus over a dozen other mods on Steam for it. I have many friends I have made through creating the mods, and I have even helped quite a few others create their own game mods over the years.

I have been heavily into Star Citizen for ten years now. My brother-in-law and nephew both work for the company creating Star Citizen, Cloud Imperium Games. I often get together with other Star Citizens and we talk about the game and hang out for an afternoon.

I have also been to their local office many times and have met the top employees several times at their office or at two of the annual CitizenCon conventions I have gone to. I know hundreds of other gamers who, like me, are big fans of SC.

20) In gaming field, do you think a large part of the pseudonyms used on the Internet nowadays have perhaps their origins in the first online PC games playable via The Sierra Network (NWN, The Shadow of Yserbius), GEnie (Air Warrior, GemStone, Dragon’s GateMultiplayer BattleTech: EGA, CyberStrike), CompuServe, AOL or any MUDs?

Sean Stalzer : Most pseudonyms online today came into existence in the past 10 years or less. Only a small percentage of people playing games today existed in the gaming universe during those games you mentioned. Total gamers were measured in the tens of thousands back then. Today it's measured in the hundreds of millions.

Tundrra : Our guild has always had a big focus on using one’s pseudonym. In the old days we required members to use different variations of the same name when they created alts or additional characters for a game. For example NORtundrra, Tundrra, Tundra Tun’drra etc.

Nowadays we have long ago removed that requirement, but we do ask members to pick at least one name that we can use as their Main identifier. So in the notes we can enter Tundrra's Alt. And on forums and Discord they would use their main gaming name.

I have been using my pseudonym since joining the guild, and after the last twenty years I have grown more attached to it. However I will say as I have grown into adulthood things like email addresses have become more serious using my realname@email.com to.

Lasarian : I think this has more to do with the comfort of the user than anything else. Are they comfortable using their real name online or not? I think more people do now than used to, I’m not sure it’s a good idea , but obviously it is a personal decision.

Garadian : Funnily enough, I’ve done a lot of thinking on this and I see a lot of names of younger people seem to be possibly console-based naming schemes, for example crazy_mango, shy_butterfly, that kind of thing, or very edgy names that aren’t acceptable in polite society, while older players tend to have names inspired or from fantasy/sci fi books, movies, cartoons or roleplaying systems as you said.

I wouldn’t say manga was as big a phenomenon in the western world in the mid- 90s as it is now, though I’m sure there were big fans. Also, as we make good friends, from time to time we’ll go by real names, though most of us don’t. It depends on the crowd in the comms I suppose.

Bard : I think that’s more of an older-gamer or a more-dedicated-gamer thing. I find that the more transient a player is (never settling into a game for more than a year, if that), the more likely they are to have multiple gaming names (whether that’s from game-to-game, different characters in the same game, or both).

Aglavalin : Our screen names started for me when I first started gaming on AOL. You have to pick a screen name and that was used in the game. Almost everyone used something other than their real name. I have always stayed away from using any numbers in my screen names, it breaks the immersion for me.

This probably got started from D&D. It did for me. Most of the people I play with still use something other than their real name. It is often due to safety since there are a lot of idiots out there.

21) What is the origin/story behind your pseudonym?

Sean Stalzer : As for gaming aliases... back in the AOL days, it was whatever your user account was. But before AOL, with the dial-up BBS' you had to make a pseudonym for them. Mine was Warlord at the time. I changed to Dragons in the pre-UO days because the main place people talked about the game was on the forums for the Ultima Dragons where everyone had a "dragon" name.

Like Raph Koster (who runs Playable Worlds now) was Designer Dragon. So everyone had a word and then Dragon or Dragon and then a word. I didn't want to be like everyone else so I went with Dragons (plural and one word only) and it stuck.

Tundrra : Tundrra with 2 "r"s came from two things, first I enjoyed playing Magic The Gathering and duel lands back then and still today were rare and coveted. One of those was called Tundra so I believe it was on my mind at the time. Secondly, my first character in Star Wars Galaxies when I joined the guild was a wookie, and I felt a wookie would roll his R's and would have that r sound.

Lasarian : My favorite D&D character, I had to shorten it to fit the limit of characters in the game, and Leighzarius became Lasarian.

Garadian : Garadian is inspired by Sir Galahad of the Knights of the Round Table, and using -arad, with the suffix of -ian taken from the appendix of Lord of the Rings. It is unique and I have been using it since the very early 90s.

Bard : The game (NWN) was 2D MUD-ish (it was in the exact same form of the old SSI Gold Box D&D games) with static paths for all player travel (no sandbox movement, per se). In any specific spot you could have only six players (if memory servers). If a fight occurred in a path, you could try to “go around” it if you were the closest one or two players and the “combat cloud” (the area the fight was taking place in) wasn’t full. Trying that would mean you might “fall into” the fight. If it was full there wasn’t even a chance to “go around”. The fights were turn-based so they could take a while.

The game had a music note icon on its character map, so when I got bored I would make up little songs to entertain the other players while we waited (it was better than having to read their constant grousing). When I joined NOR, I picked the name Bard because of that. When EverQuest came along and we could have surnames, I came up with Talespinner (because of my fondness for good stories).

Aglavalin : I've used my AD&D Magic User's name of Aglavalin since I joined NOR in 1995. I have since retired it because it is just too hard to pronounce. A-glav- a-lin. Rhymes with javalin and uses all soft a's in pronunciation. Too hard to remember or pronounce right, but at least it is original and never confused with anyone else!

22) Now, guild or clan ranks in online games are well known but do you know if this concept came from the developers or if, at the dawn of guilds it was the players who invented them and the studios liked them so much that they later actually implemented them or it’s just the developers who integrated them from the beginning?

Sean Stalzer : Guild ranks evolved out of players. The earliest guilds were flat. There was the Guildmaster and everyone else. The earliest guilds didn’t contemplate a guildmaster might quit and leave a guild stranded either. It was players saying they wanted granularity and it was help desk tickets from players saying their guild was stranded because the GM left, that prompted more granularity.

Tundrra : The ranking system we use today was originally put in place in 1994 to help send guild news and information to members for coordinating in-game stuff. Since there were no built in guild tools or mass email abilities in those old games. A feudal system of Lords, Ladies, Counts, Barons were used since all the games at that time were very medieval high fantasy.

Lasarian : They were created by the users and members, it was all very tribal. Our own language, rank structure, customs, etc., - remember there was a time when “lol” and “;-)” didn’t exist. The developers didn’t invent those, the players did.

Garadian : I think it was a combination of the two. Developers added a rank system because players were already using one. Some early Multi-user dungeons actually had built in guild systems, but as far as graphical MMOs go, I believe that Meridian 59 might be the first official graphical one to have a proper in-game guild system.

Bard : It was absolutely the players who invented this. In the early days, there were no guild tools. No one had fancy guild tags above their names nor management tools within the games to add/remove players. Most games had multiple chat rooms or channels, so people in a specific guild just used the same one over and over (The Realms Online is a solid example of that). If the game didn’t have something like that (like NWN), the way we recognized one another was putting the guild acronym (NOR) before our name. So you would see characters with names like NOR Bard, SSB Twila, MECH Sharky, etc.

These guilds all had their own hierarchies, rules and kept their own notes on membership as nothing like that was included in any games to that point. Much of the information on these hierarchies were kept via email, with possibly a few having their own website (geocities or something similar). Much of the communication for the playerbase was done on message boards associated with the game (usually by the company providing the game).

Aglavalin : Originally it was the guilds who created their own rank names and how they were used. NOR's ranks developed over the first couple years into the complex system we have now. The ranks were in use by the time I joined in 1995 and have been altered slightly a few times since. Some games saw the guilds using ranks and used them in the game since they were familiar to players already.

23) In your opinion, what are the most common reasons why a guild closes its doors?

Sean Stalzer : In our guild's 2nd book, we have a big section on what we feel is the secret sauce to make a lasting community. It starts with solid recruiting. We get over 4,000 applications to join every year. We take maybe 10-20 people. As such, we lose hardly anyone and we have basically no internal drama. We are super selective and that makes for a lasting team.

Most groups simply need bodies to overcome a game goal (i.e. enough people to raid.. more tanks.. more healers etc..) and 'who' those people are doesn't matter in the moment. That leads to drama and that leads to turnover which increases the pull for more bodies and the cycle spins onward until those who held the guild together had enough and they leave.

Tundrra : Other guilds I cannot say, but I can tell you what I see the most when one of our guild branches gets closed. There are a couple factors and most of it falls on the upper leadership of the branch. Firstly the guild leader needs to recruit new members within that game. Because we have a large player base in the guild, but only a handful of them are going to be interested in playing a new game that comes out, so whichever officer steps up to open up a branch of the guild they have to recruit new members from within that game. find those players that are excited to be there.

If they don't, then the branch is too quiet, no one is playing together, no events are being organized and players will leave. There needs to be a flow of new players coming in to replace those that stop gaming or move to the next game.

Succession is another important thing that can cause a branch to disband, if the current leader doesn’t have a replacement and stops showing up or caring. So once a new branch leader is put into place and the branch begins to grow they need to choose new officers to help them run the guild there. At some point they need to pick their number two, someone that would be willing and comfortable to take over if they have to suddenly quit the game or lose interest. A working example is Neverwinter which we established in 2013, it has had 6 branch leaders, with a smooth transition between each one. Star Wars The Old Republic has had 5 branch leaders since its creation in 2011.

The current leader there is Intisar and he has been leading Star Wars The Old Republic for 10 years now. One thing the High Council likes to do once a year is to check in with our leaders, and see what their contingency plan is if they have to suddenly leave and what we can do to help if they need it.

However many realms have just fizzled and I trace it back to lack of recruitment most times.

Lasarian : Most common I would guess either a cult of personality, once the leader departs or becomes inactive, or single-purpose guilds: Raiding for example. Once that slows down or the objectives are reached, there’s not much left to do.

Garadian : Outside of a game reaching the near-end of its life, I’d say the most common reasons a guild will go belly up in a game is a lack of active recruiting and the loss of energy of its officers/leader. If none of the members are willing to step up, that’s it.

Bard : In my experience, it usually winds up being players just stop playing the specific game or stop gaming in general as other aspects of life become more important. Of the many, many dozens (perhaps hundreds) of guildies I’ve gamed with over the decades I can think of only a handful I know of who still game and hardly any of them are dedicated to any specific game like we all used to be.

Aglavalin : NOR has always had good luck recruiting new members. We usually ask people if they want to join after meeting and adventuring with them in a game. We like to get to know someone first, see their play style and try to ensure it is in line with our values. Being friendly and helpful and having fun. How many depends on how active each member is. Some members will enjoy recruiting more than others. It is not uncommon for a branch of NOR to gain a couple new members a week when many players are very active. Any guild needs to constantly recruit new members to replace those who quit or stop playing the game. It is a never ending requirement to keep any guild going.

24) How many applications do you get each year to join your guild? And how many do you accept, based on what criteria?

Sean Stalzer : As said, we get over 4,000 applications to join every year. We take maybe 10-20 people. We only recruit people we know very well.. that we feel have the same values, play styles and goals as us.. and that understand our core mission is friends first/guild first and that we use gaming to grow that mission and not the other way around.

Tundrra : In 2024 we had 88 applications, 67 players were recruited and 20 stayed long enough to become members. In 2023 we had 104 applications, 71 recruited, 43 became members.

Criteria, the application itself is a wall to be sure the player takes their guild seriously. The questions are not hard, but if they leave everything blank or don't fill out one at all, then that is the first sign that they might not be a good fit . After that we recruit them and get them in-game and discord. If they participate in groups and chat then their membership is usually streamlined. If they get their guild tag and just ignore they are part of the guild then usually they stay recruits for a long time, or detag, or leave the game, so they never become members.

Lasarian : I don’t know, but Tundrra would. Quite a few, I should think, I mean, quite a few for us …

Garadian : I’ll leave that one to Lord Tundrra to answer..

Bard : I do not know as I’m not involved in that. Understand though that NOR is active in quite a few games so each one can have increases and decreases in new members. We are more about the quality of the player rather than the quantity.

When I was in an active branch we didn’t advertise, but actively recruited players we may have grouped with and liked their personality and/or play-style (personality was the more important quality though).

[For The Syndicate] 25) Can you tell me the story behind your guild's entry in the Guinness Book of Records?

Sean Stalzer : I know that The New OutRiders guild also tried to get in, but they didn't make it, for reasons that seem to be unknown. -- That was an idea I had lots of years ago. We were old. We could not find any other guild that had continuously existed alongside us.

Guilds came and went and occasionally were reborn and then came and went again. I approached Guinness with an idea for the record. They have a records setting committee that decides if a record is worth having or not. Back then, gaming was popular but not mainstream. So I had to help educate them on what the online gaming scene was and what the communities were etc. It took them a few months and they did lots of research and came back with a definition of the record and allowed us a chance to set it.

Setting it the first time involved a lot of paperwork. We had to be able to demonstrate every year of our existence with objective proof, witness statements (like from game developers), trademark paperwork, strategy guides we had written, conferences etc.. It was a mountain of evidence to establish "continuous" because just saying "look, I have a website!" is something anyone could do and fake.

Since then, we "break" our record every year or two and what we have to demonstrate then is continued existence since the last record. It still requires objective, third party evidence but the pile is smaller than the first time.

[For New OutRiders] 25.5) Can you tell the story behind your guild's refusal in the Guinness Book of Records? I think it was around 2010 that you started trying to get into Guinness, wasn't it? I know it must be a difficult subject to talk about, I'm sorry.

Tundrra : This was a Lasarian project, he messaged everybody he still had contact with from the old days to get them to search for old documents or proof of our existence. But the internet was so new back then and desktops were changing so fast, by the time we were trying to preserve things old pc’s had been thrown out or the technology or thought of screen capturing wasn’t there. I think the real records started when we began emailing members. Instead of just in game chatting and icq/aol messaging.

I don't think Lasarian ever officially applied since we didn't have all the necessary documentation, so there was no refusal by Guinness. However I do think we will apply, one of our biggest hurdles was finding a reliable 3rd party documentation that validates our existence and your research discovered the monthly newsletter sent out by ImagiNation Network newsletter "Imaginings" where our guild was mentioned in a handful of issues dating back to early 1994 and 1995.

Lasarian : We weren’t refused, we actually were unable to string together a complete timeline using the guidelines provided to us by Guiness to document our continued operation and existence as a guild by their parameters. It was frustrating and disappointing, but probably more important (to us) that we actually are still here than it is documenting it by someone else’s standards. Syndicate was able to do so, we were not. Alas.

Garadian : My understanding of the underlying reason for this is that pre-1996, there wasn’t much of a web presence for anyone, so tracing online mentions of the guild before ‘96 is difficult. Though, we have found some old official Imagination Network newsletter references to our guild predating 1996 since then.

Bard : Tundrra would know more about that than I think anyone else. If memory serves though, it’s because the games we were in prior to EQ have little to no presence online any longer. This means it becomes very difficult to validate our claims as more and more of the proof comes from old meeting minutes on old floppy disks or just word of mouth from older members.

Aglavalin : I have not been active in this, but I have heard that NOR has been unable to obtain the written documentation from the online services and games where we had our early branches. Like INN has been gone forever, and AOL is probably hard to deal with. No one knew that Guinness would be asking for written documentation from companies to prove continual existence. Most of the early guild communication was done on message boards the game set up, so they disappeared when the games did. No record can be verified this way for the early games we were in.

26) Was there ever a time when you yourself considered leaving your guild along the way? For reasons inside or outside video games?

Sean Stalzer : Nope.. I have been committed to the guild for the entire 30 years. Life has challenges but those come and go. I am not a person to give up on things because something else in life is impacting you. I founded the community and its full of super good people that I would never have met in life (due to where they lived or what they did for a living etc..) except through a shared hobby of online gaming. I have friends going back nearly that entire 30 years.

We have an annual, in person, conference so those friendships are not names on a screen but real people that you come to know and like and support and share experiences with. This coming Saturday we have a dinner with 20 or 25 of us about an hour from where I live and we'll hang out for hours and talk about all sorts of things and plan the upcoming conference etc..

Tundrra : I have never considered leaving the guild, but I have had to leave games due to reallife events, or on occasion a new game catches my eye. However with NOR's unique way of having a presence in many games and robust social media, if a player leaves it's not too many years before they are back to say hello or try out a new game we are in.

Lasarian : Certainly. Frustration with leadership, boredom, personality conflicts, exhaustion. I took breaks instead. Sabbaticals.

Garadian : Never, though real life issues do and have come up, I’ve never had any problems that a leave-of-absence with a return couldn’t solve.

Bard : I “retired” from our High Council years ago when those of us left in Everquest II moved on to other games NOR wasn’t in or non-gaming. I have spent so long in the guild (whether active or inactive), I never really considered myself no longer a member.

Aglavalin : I have always enjoyed being in NOR and it has made my online gaming experience be so much richer and long lasting than it could have ever been without the continuity. I have many fond memories from over the years.

28) How do you see guilds, clans and teams in the future of online gaming, and how do you see yours? Do you still see your guild existing in...2050?

Sean Stalzer : I will probably not be alive but I could be, theoretically. We have a succession plan built into the guild including our bank accounts, email boxes, relationship contacts, websites, servers etc.. It is all very formalized and it will evolve over time as I get older and different folks get tapped to be the future leaders.

Guilds themselves are the core of what makes a game successful. Raph Koster was talking about successful MMOs that focus on community first and foremost. Maybe we call them guilds... clans.. organizations.. communities.. who really cares. In the end, groups that come together for a purpose are going to be around and games that make that experience great and the ones that have a strong foundation to stick around.

Tundrra : 2050 I hope so:) I think as long as we continue to bring in new officers and encourage them to take our traditions into new games and provide them with infrastructure, then the player base could easily be going strong in another 25yrs :)

Lasarian : I am biased here of course, I don’t know what the future of online gaming guilds is … although more generally, whenever you get a group of people together, they tend to organize themselves just like they did back on INN.

For NOR, specifically, our guild has long ago outgrown its original purpose. We are still an online gaming guild of course, but we also play TTRPGs and chat on Discord. Just for fun, we meet in person, take vacations together. It’s more like a social club now really.

Garadian : Absolutely! 25 years might seem like a long time, but it’s actually not far off. As long as we keep recruiting, allow room for our newer members to become leaders and keep doing what we are doing, there is no doubt that as long as MMOs exist, there will always be room for gaming guilds.

Bard : Clans, guilds, teams… They have become far more transient over the years with people being far more likely to just join while they test out a game, then simply disappear when they don’t feel drawn to it. NOR is a bit niche in that we tend to look for the more “old-school” (read: more committed) players (whether that’s to a specific MMO or games in general).

It’s quite possible we could still be active in 2050, but I think a lot of that will come down to someone taking Tundrra’s place as webmaster, publisher, writer, etc. whenever he finally decides to step down (may that day never come).

Aglavalin : I see guilds being here to stay. They offer a camaraderie and friendship you can not find anywhere else. I do see guilds and teams becoming more popular and important as eSports evolve. Yes I think NOR can still be around in 2050!

29) Do you organize IRL events? If yes, which ones and how many do you organize each year? And have you ever thought of holding some kind of conference/convention to promote stuff like role-play & online games, or have you never thought of it?

Sean Stalzer : We have a ton of real life events from 24 years of our annual SyndCon event... to LAN parties.. to Board Gaming weekends... to monthly dinners... to live feedback sessions with developers... to our annual Charity Raffle.

Tundrra : The High Council has a weekly voice meeting that all can attend, and the first sunday of the month is focused on having all the Branch leaders there, to do a quick monthly check in. That meeting really is the only one where things get announced.

In person meets do happen from time to time, but they are usually smaller events we call NORbashes. I hosted one in 2017 for all the players in our Old Republic realm. It was fun, a dozen players from all over the country made the trip for a cookout and meeting up.

More recently im part of a NOR D&D group that plays online a couple times a week, and we have all assembled our families together twice now for a week in 2022 and 2024, with another planned in 2027.

I would love to see a large type of meet up organized every 5 years or so, and will put some serious thought into it.

Lasarian : Yes, all the time. Every other year usually, but sometimes every year. We hosted one at my own house just in 2024. We have met with other guilds, we have attended Cons and Ren Faire’s, so we have interacted with other guilds to that degree, but never a formal, summit style event that I know of.

Garadian : It is not something that is too frequent, though our guild has had a few meetups over the years, but I have yet to attend one personally. As far a conference/convention goes, who knows what the future will bring?

Bard : To the best of my knowledge we’ve never thought of a convention, but we have had quite a few IRL gatherings over the years. I’m not sure how common they are now, but back in the early days of EQ I went to two and had a blast at each.

Aglavalin : NOR has had many annual meetups. We used to call them NOR Bashes. I went to one in 1995 and again in 1998. I traveled 3000 miles to get there too. It was very nice getting to know other members face to face. And it always helps when dealing with them later on. You can put a face to the name. I have been to dozens of meetups for Star Citizen. Not as a NOR, just for the game itself. I have organized many of them locally where I live. I am driving to Las Vegas for a big SC show in two months. I will meet new people and be able to hang out with old friends.

30) Do you remember the first and your first MMO World First raid and the first and your first major PvP battle?

Sean Stalzer : I very fondly remember the first massive PvP battle of UO because I arranged it. It was sooooo laggy. I also remember the first true raids as those came about from Everquest and were in the Plane of Fear. We were not the first to raid there but I do remember that moment in gaming history.

Tundrra : I don't remember any specifics from my first raid, but I did raid a lot in Everquest 2. There were a good couple years, we were a pretty successful raiding guild. I remember we earned points to spend on gear that would drop from bosses, so the more you raided the more points you would receive and build up your character.

I also raided alot in The Old Republic. The branch Leader there still organizes weekly raids that have great attendance.

Lasarian : I never participated in any world first to my knowledge, the first major PVP battle was a planned world wide event on WoW.

Garadian : As far as I know, I haven’t personally participated in any World’s Firsts, though I don’t pay much attention to such things. As far as PvP goes though, I do firmly remember the first time a couple of PKers popped into my fight in Neverwinter Nights. They roleplayed as Drow, even using some of the language and unsuccessfully tried to take me out. In that game, only magic users could pvp and they had a bad time since I played a Paladin that was super resistant to everything they could throw at me, though I couldn’t damage them once I ran out of magic scrolls. At the end, they got bored and just left.

Bard : I remember NOR Vickie trying to escort my newbie self through the PVP area of NWN and us getting jumped. One of the guys' name was something like RUSTYNAIL and a number or two (no idea why I remember that). Vickie held her own pretty well, I got smoked!

I’ve never been much for PVP and a lot of the early games (pre-2000) didn’t lend themselves to large PVP fights (or, at least, it wasn’t a big focus).

Aglavalin : I guess the first time I did anything like a world raid was in DAoC (Dark Age of Camelot) when we were having large pvp battles in the PvP zones. I have done things like group up in a party of 4 to 10 people for a dungeon, but a large raid was different.

31) [The Syndicate] Where did you get the idea of transposing your experience into books?
[New OutRiders] Have you ever thought of transposing your guild story into a book, an audio episode, a video, or any other medium?

Sean Stalzer : The book was actually a suggestion of a member and I was like "no way... I don't have time for that" and then wrote it in a week since once I got going I couldn't get thoughts down fast enough. Of course editing etc.. took longer.

Tundrra : We have had a podcast in the past.
We have been interviewed at least once before by another gaming podcast. "The Retro Zoo Super Show" in 2018.

Lasarian : I have considered it and even penned a few pages, but haven’t really pursued it.

Garadian : I am currently designing a New OutRiders children’s book to give to new parents. As far as videos go, it’s on my list to make a series about the guild, though this will be in future.

Bard : I have not, but including some of the members (or their characters) might not be a bad idea.

Aglavalin : No, I will probably not do any formal type of documentation. I probably should since I have met many of our early members but I have no plans at this time.

32) Has been part of the guild/running the guild influenced your real life, personally and professionally speaking? For example, on a personal level, has it awakened any hobbies or passions?

Sean Stalzer : Running a guild is a truly amazing leadership experience. If you think about it, you have a highly diverse team of people... who, for the most part, do not know what each other looks like or sounds like etc.. (at least in the early days) yet form deep friendships. So you end up with this melting pot of experiences and education and political beliefs and religions etc.. but NONE of it matters (in fact we have a rule that you keep that stuff out of the guild). All that matters is the person behind the toon. Are they genuine? A good person? Can you trust them? Count on them? So you get this incredible team of people in a community. But guilds are a dime a dozen.

There have been tens of millions of them in our history. And switching guilds is as easy as a mouse click in many games. So leadership of that kind of group is a challenge in that you have to find a way to communicate to everyone, trying to meet each person where they are at, be perceived as fair and open minded but not allowing drama to creep in or issues to go unaddressed.

That is an artform and not a science. It's something real-life business leaders struggle with all the time. I have had a 30 year incubator for good (And bad) ideas that I could learn from and grow as a person, friend and leader. And this group of people is amazing and I like and trust them so you get real time feedback and chances to tweak things and improve.

Tundrra : I’m sure it has subconsciously, I’m in sales which means you have to be willing to approach people and talk up your product. Recruiting in a guild, can have some parallels. I have always had a passion for programming, so the guild has been a way for me to learn and advance my coding for the guild website and database.

Lasarian : It taught me a lot about being a leader and what that role means to me and what I did horribly wrong and what I got right, contrasted to what I thought I knew about being a leader (almost nothing) and what I learned it was really about. It was an honor, and a sacred duty that my team, my members, asked me, trusted me, to fulfill.

Garadian : Over my years in the guild, I find it has made public speaking extremely easy for me, as well as dealing with people of all different personalities. It has greatly increased my writing skills over the years too. I can’t think of any other hobbies it has awakened though.

Bard : It actually has. Being a Baron, then Count, then Duke, then Lord each contained different levels of having to manage people and situations. Those experiences helped me learn how to do similarly IRL.

Aglavalin : Yes, being in a large guild has taught me much about dealing with others online, and even in person. It has helped me avoid most pitfalls which are due to another person causing problems either intentionally or by accident.

33) What relationships do you have with other guilds/clans? Have there been any conflicts or is everything going well?

Sean Stalzer : While I do not mean any offense with this statement, no other guild or clan actually impacts our path forward as a community. The same is true for any guild when you think about it. The purpose of a community is to serve its members. What another group is doing is irrelevant to helping your folks achieve their goals.

We have absolutely had positive relationships with lots of groups over the years and in that moment we jointly did things to benefit both communities. However, most groups exist for a game. We do not. We exist for our friendships and online gaming happens to be a shared hobby. So is tabletop gaming, as another example or TTRPGs and we do those a great deal as well.

Tundrra : We have had many alliances over the years with other guilds, especially those that focus on raiding, so we can fill a raid group with regular players. In Neverwinter there is a whole built in game mechanic that encourages alliances with other guilds to help find groups for dungeons and world boss mechanics.

But there have been conflicts as well, but luckily I have not had any first hand experience with them. I believe one of the reasons our Archeage branches collapsed was because of its highly pvp focus, our guild was targeted and constantly harassed by other guilds to the point it fell apart. But I never played that game so I don't recall the details.

Lasarian : We have a long standing alliance with a guild known as The Royal Black Watch, although in recent years we have fallen out of the regular contact we used to enjoy. There was a time when our members visited each other’s forums pretty regularly, we often did dungeons and raids together on WoW, we even had a few members tagged into each other’s guilds as ambassadors.

Garadian : I’d say our relationship with other guilds is pretty good. We try to leave a good impression. Being an older guild a lot of people have heard of us, so we try to maintain that.

Bard : I have no conflicts with any other guilds nor clans. Back in the days of NWN though, NOR and MECH were two of the biggest guilds and therefore had a pretty good (and good-natured) rivalry.

Aglavalin : My experiences with NOR is that we have not had that many alliances with other guilds. We are basically peaceful and when you have an agreement with another guild, their enemies quickly become your enemies. This is not something we are interested in. There is often enough conflict within a guild itself at any given time that adding drama from another guild is just not a good thing. Most guild conflicts are due to PvP or some guild leaders having too fat of a head and being full of themselves.

34) How have you coped, if it happened, with the death of one of your members or the departure of a member who has spent, by any chance, 20 years or more in your guild?

Sean Stalzer : It is never easy to lose a member. Your question caused me to go review our memorial to fallen members and reflect on the people we have lost over the 30 years. They are people and not pixels because that is the focus of our membership. Our first death was a tragically young member and she passed highly unexpectedly and was a friend to many. Her mother was a member as well, else we may not have known.

Tundrra : Yes to both all too often. A few times a year we will hear from friends and family of members who have passed away. I usually will announce it on our Facebook page, and give a brief history of their guild accomplishments, so our non active members get notified.

Death is expected and is part of life so that is easier to deal with then when a player quits the guild altogether.

It's rough to see someone that put in 10+ years building a branch of the game and then leave for another guild in the same game. There is that sense of betrayal that lingers. But it is only a game so you have to go where your going to have the most fun and we are not a fit for everyone.

Lasarian : We’ve had many deaths among our members over the years, of course, that number has grown as time goes on. Some I didn’t know very well, some I knew quite well and considered close friends. That can be shocking if not expected, we mourn, as a group, we create memorials in-game if we are able to. We have a page reserved for our fallen comrades.

Garadian : The death of a member is always a tragedy and a great loss to our guild. This is always something that is hard for me personally and I try to keep them in our guild memory, telling stories about them when the situation comes up for it and things like that. As far as a member leaving after such a long time, it rarely happens, though sometimes someone will be years away, but it’s always a celebration when they do come back to us.

Bard : That happened a few years back with Fandrall (Jim). Fanny was one of our large, core group in EverQuest and then into EverQuest II. We all spent numerous hours together playing and chatting. He and his wife were both members and hosted one of our IRL gatherings. A few years before he died, he and his wife visited my wife and I at our home as they vacationed in our part of the country. He was a great guy to talk with, to game with and was solid as a rock as a friend. I still get a little choked up thinking that he’s gone.

Aglavalin : I have seen 100s of members come and go during the times I have been active in NOR. I have seen a few members die, which is always harder if they are someone you played with or talked to at length. There are always going to be clashes between personalities which often result in member(s) leaving the guild. Nothing will ever stop that as it is just human nature that not all of us will get along.

35) Have you ever thought of taking part in e-sports or in any sort of competition in MMOs (raids, PvP) that share some e-sports aspects?

Sean Stalzer : We have thought about it but it's not a focus of ours. Our focus is the community. Online games are a tool we use to support the community. e-sports tends to be a rather all-consuming endeavor and the folks that do it know that going into it. That kind of single minded focus is probably not one that enhances our community.

Tundrra : No, I am not an e-sport fan. However we did host some Card Game competitions with a game called Solforge and Hearthstone. Back in 2013 and 2015.

Lasarian : Never.

Garadian : I haven’t considered this to any degree. I have always believed that generalization is the way to go and focusing too hard on any specific thing can take away from the other aspects of the guild that are enjoyable.

Bard : No, it’s not my thing. I play games to relax and being in e-sports would make it too much like work.

Aglavalin : No, I am not a competitive person. I dislike how it makes many people act. Childish or like jerks.

36) In MMOs (especially older ones), do you think that, with today's more powerful computers, being able to display and see more of the scenery in front of you can contribute to demystifying the game landscape? That it takes away some of the atmosphere that added to the charm of the game in its early days?

Sean Stalzer : Seeing the entire game unfold before you is a product of advancing technology and not having to load in things that are further away. It does take away some of the charm of early MMOs since you didn't know what was a medium or long distance away. I think in the future though that charm can return as things become truly epic scale.

WoW, for example, takes place on a continent however its actual "size" (if you measure it by the length of a stride) is much smaller than say Europe or North America. Games may one day grow to a more realistic size and things become truly exploratory and majestic all over again.

Tundrra : Graphics and eye candy can bring folks in, but if they didn't put enough effort into the mechanics of the game it won’t matter and the game will lose its player base. But I don't think it demystifies it, it makes it more immersive.

Lasarian : No, I think if done well games can be breathtakingly beautiful, and using the technology to its full effect is to be expected. I think a lot of games fall flat when they forget to actually design a game amid all those bells and whistles.

Garadian : I’d say the scenery is always good, though there is a certain charm in older games of so much work being done in our imaginations. My personal gripe is with overuse of quest trail finders and mini-maps, which takes away from learning areas by their landmarks and the art that goes into these things.

37) What do you think about the economy of certain MMOs being managed solely by players, rather than by the studios, compared to the economy managed by the studios?

Sean Stalzer : That model has been a loser every time it has been tried. Players want loot. They want to collect tons of stuff as they game.. sell it for gold... and buy more stuff. They do not want to be limited to whom they can go to or to get components to craft things and find someone to make it. That model may sound neat on paper but it has failed miserably to grab the attention of most players. It should be abandoned, in my opinion.

Tundrra : I don't have any opinion on this, I don't pay much attention to that aspect of gaming.

Lasarian : I think oversight is required by the studios, some clever individual will always find ways to game the system if not checked.

Garadian : I think that some of the economy should be player-driven, but to avoid exploitation or ruination of it, the game masters/developers should have a hand in keeping it on track. There are some very clever trading consortiums out there that can destroy a game’s economy.

38) Do you think that certain platforms such as Discord (or, in the more distant past, Teamspeak, Ventrilo, Skype, and others) have contributed to reducing online gaming communication in some way, or vice versa?

Sean Stalzer : There is a limit to how much you can type, especially when doing harder content and there is the challenge that many people may not see the text as it flies by. Discord and its predecessors have helped turn pixels in a game into real people and allowed those people to express more complex thoughts, that everyone can hear and react to.

Tundrra : Having Discord has strengthened the bonds of members due to its voice ability. With text only, you forget that there is a person behind those short sentences, with voice you connect more. With voice you are able to coordinate group dungeons with more success.

Lasarian : I think the developers were slow to realize that their players preferred to communicate directly in real time and failed to provide that technology in-game.

Garadian : I believe that the voice/social platforms have actually helped a lot and had a positive effect, taking away from the time spent typing, allowing us the freedom to banter more easily as we adventure, though not everybody enjoys being in voice, so it is very important that we watch the chat and still be responsive to those people as well!

39) Do you think that simply switching windows to browse the web (i.e., switching from the game to the browser) and keeping yourself busy during a “downtime” in an MMO (e.g., being AFK in the capital while your group forms for a dungeon) is a factor to consider in the instant pleasure that players want in games?

Sean Stalzer : My opinion is that most players prefer to be solo, in MMOs, more than half the time. There is absolutely content that many players enjoy doing with groups but by and large, people play games to be "The" hero and not to be "A" hero in a pack. It is fun to be part of something massive and epic with lots of people, sometimes, but most people play games to be "the" one and only hero which invariably means solo play to get those personal feelings of accomplishment are what many people enjoy, more than half the time. I don't think it's Alt-Tab. I think it's human nature.

Tundrra : Is this a kind of evolution in consumption, where players want to be constantly occupied, coupled with the fact that we now have better computers that allow us to do so? (e.g., from my own observation, I know that players didn't use to alt+tab because their PCs weren't good enough and it would take too long for the game to reload once the window was reopened, so they would wander around a big city doing nothing; now, as soon as there's a downtime, they alt+tab to the Internet to kill that downtime).

And, in a way, could this feature be the reason for a reduction in communication between players in the game (if they alt + tab, they don't wander around in the game and interact on the channels)?

I do find myself alt-tabbing during down time, to check discord or look at a wiki article about something in game. But I keep my eye on chat and if I'm in a group I try not to alt-tab at all.

Lasarian : I think people do all kinds of things when they’re bored. They read, they draw, they play another game, pet their dog, go get a snack, get a phone call and forget they were in-game.

Garadian : I do wish that more information was available in MMOs directly, requiring people to have to research things less, perhaps better in-game help files or wikis accessible in the game browser if it has one, but overall, it hasn’t been too big of a problem. I’ve never seen a group held up by someone browsing the web.

40) Do you think MMOs are better suited to PCs, consoles, mobile or both? Or does the enjoyment of playing them simply vary from one person to another?

Sean Stalzer : MMOs are most suited for PCs. There are more tools there and more infrastructure to support them.

Tundrra : PC is the best, moving to mobile and console really limits your controls and you find the games become too simplified. The complexity adds to the challenge and keeps it interesting.

Lasarian : That’s probably individual taste. I prefer the PC, I no longer have the reflexes or hand eye I had when I was 25 to use a console controller in an MMO.

Garadian : Though mobile games are getting better, they do still limit the depth of mechanics in a game, though whatever someone is comfortable using personally should be the standard. Personally I prefer MMOs on PC, I think they allow more in game systems to enjoy.

41) What do you think of players who play MMOs (or other online games) in unusual ways?

Sean Stalzer : As for how people play.. if they are not violating the terms of service (i.e. cheating) then more power to them.

Tundrra : I remember players who would run multiple toons at a once to create their own group, I always thought that would be odd, to pay for 2 accounts, or run to pc's at once so they could solo more in a multi-player game.

Lasarian : I think if you violate the ToS you run the danger of facing the consequences from the developer, but otherwise, “you do you man” …

Garadian : To each, their own, as long as it isn’t making someone else struggle or lower the enjoyment for them. As far as violating TOS, it should never be done.

42) What is your opinion on guilds made up entirely of people with disabilities (e.g., a guild made up entirely of deaf people)? Do you think that their way of playing and perceiving an MMO can only enhance it?

Sean Stalzer : I think a guild made up of any kind of person, that serves the interest of its members, is great. There are quite a few predatory guilds that use members to advance the agendas of the leadership but guilds that exist for their members are great.

Tundrra : Sure it can enhance it, players who have similar struggles will be more patient and understanding with each other.

Lasarian : I have no idea. I didn’t know such guilds existed, but that’s pretty cool. I guess whatever works for them, helps them enjoy the game, have fun with their peers, that is excellent.

Garadian : I think those types of guilds are awesome. Whatever makes it easier and more fun for the people playing a game. They also have an advantage in better understanding limitations and breaking those limitations than a standard guild would have.

43) Have you ever played any online game alpha and/or beta thanks to your guild? If yes, how many? And, if this was the case, do you remember which was the first game where you had access to an alpha or beta?

Sean Stalzer : We have played many dozens of games in pre-alpha, alpha and beta. If there is a game with multi-player, there is a good chance we were invited to participate long before the general public ever saw it.

Tundrra : I have signed up for several beta and alpha's over the years, but the only one I really played was Neverwinter which was in Alpha when I started in it. A handful of us signed up for Camelot Unchained when it was a kickstarter and we received some early alpha codes, but the game was in such early stages at the time there wasn't really a desire to put time into trying it.

Lasarian : Yes, we did, several times if I recall, and I’m sure you’re going to want titles but I would have to look them up.

Garadian : I have never done so, though if we were offered, personally, I probably wouldn’t do it. I prefer that a game is tested in-house and released in its final playable form before I will go to it. Now if they wanted to cut me a paycheck for it, I’d be all over it!

Bard : EverQuest was my first beta. Since then, I’ve beta’d a few games. T4C (The 4th Coming, which never made it out of beta), DCUO (played that for over a decade after it went live), City of Titans, Pax Dei (still in EA) stick out especially.

Aglavalin : I have no idea how many alpha and beta games I have played. Probably as many as 50. I think the first was when I was testing Ultima Online 3D in 1999 or so, which never got published. It was ugly!

44) With people's current and increasingly shared perception of the questionable state of the AAA industry (games often released buggy and less finished or even closed after launch), have you ever thought, as some kind of what we can interpret as a protest, to consider not wanting any more alphas, betas, invitations or any kind of early access, like as a sign of a breach of trust with the studios?

Sean Stalzer : There has not been a first class MMORPG released in some years. Some of the ones coming like Pax DEI and Ashes of Creation have wonderful ideas but miss the fact that games with mandatory or a heavy focus on PvP nearly always fail to get wide-spread traction. The industry needs more folks like Raph Koster's team to have the core MMORPG vision and deliver similar products.

Tundrra : I have never considered any kind of formal protest towards a game. A buggy game or a laggy game will drive folks from playing it, and once they are gone it is difficult to bring them back. I have noticed if a game is in beta or alpha too early, then when it finally launches the players that were interested have already played it, lost interest and have moved on to the next game before the game even has time to build an audience.

Lasarian : Wow, right. Well, I think if guilds want early access or any access to participate and contribute, protesting is probably a good way to get your name crossed off a list. I think players need to remember that the studios own these properties, they aren’t public property or a public domain. These are IPs, they take time and money to create. Bad one’s will fail, good one’s will thrive (usually). I think if the players want a voice they need to play ball a little.

Garadian : This one goes personally too. I know the studios try really hard and it is probably disappointing to the programmers when a game isn’t well-received, I still would prefer they test their games in-house more. Maybe even hold back on hyping it too much until it’s released. As for me, I would prefer a finished game and if there are problems, prompt updates. I hold my judgement until I try them though.

Bard : No, not that I know of. One of NOR’s core concepts is that of helping others. Testing is a form of help by trying to help make a game as good as it can be.

Aglavalin : I think that 'early access' games in alpha or beta are not ever going away. They are a way for a studio to fund a game now. Some fail, but most do get released at some point. I think a guild would not protest a game, only a player can decide that for themselves.

45) Has it ever happened that you’ve been accepted by a small studio or a major publisher in the industry because of his membership with the guild?

Tundrra : It has not happened to us.

Lasarian : Like for a job? I don’t know personally, Tundrra might know about that. We’ve certainly had members that worked in the industry.

Garadian : It hasn’t happened, though it would be an honor to see my guild recognized in that way.

Bard : Not that I know of.

Aglavalin : I have not heard of this. I can believe that some of us have put it on a resume or mentioned it while applying for a job. It could have weight. I have often mentioned that I have been a member of the oldest continually run guild in the world with great pride. I am also a member of another guild, TEST Squadron in Star Citizen, which is the largest guild in the world with over 23,000 current members.

46) How long did it take to build your site, and who did it?

Sean Stalzer : With the large number of members we have, we tend to have several people with skills in just about anything. In this case, a super talented person named Tom (with gaming alias Derugash) built the current version of the website.

Tundrra : We have had many webmasters over the years, I am the current one. In 2012 the webmaster of our main website at the time left the guild and we lost our newoutriders.com website. However Aglavalin had established a .org version in 1999 which we still had access to, so Lasarian converted the newoutriders.org domain to be our main site and created our Online Roster in 2013 moving our decades of text docs and spreadsheets to an online database.

In 2015 I took over, since then the site has moved to WordPress and it has been easy to upload content members write (newsletters and game guides). Lord Garadian also helps a lot with the WordPress editing and writing some content.

The big time sync and I have put in countless hours in is the database. Not only did it take years to upload the archive of text files to the database, I have rebuilt the whole thing from scratch. Added all kinds of officer tools so they can log in and maintain players guild history and assign awards and move their status from active to inactive and move them from game to game.

The database has allowed me to create basic statistics of the guilds growth over the years, find out which games have been the most popular, etc.

And most recently I'm creating a way for our realms to track their endgame raids and weekly events attendance and progression.

Lasarian : We’ve had several sites, several versions, built over years and across multiple people. I did a lot, Tundrra did a lot more and cleaned up my mess. It was a labor of love. I don’t remember how long it took, but I did enjoy doing it.

Garadian : This one is Lord Tundrra territory!

Bard : There were a couple of prior sites before this one as there had never been an edict from the High Council about an official site. At one point we had a .net site (that was the EQ-Rathe branch) and I think a .com site. Eventually those were consolidated down to the current site. As to how long that took, again I will refer you to Tundrra.

Aglavalin : As far as I know, the NOR website has always been created by a member. I created and ran it myself for a few years over 20 years ago.

47) Given your longevity and that of the web, how do you see your guild's communication in the next 30 or even 50 years? Will it still be primarily via its website, or also via social platforms?

Sean Stalzer : Communication regularly evolves. When we started it was email only. We added in a forum and while that still exists and is used daily, it's not the main communication mechanism anymore. IRC came along and was used for years. Tools like ICQ as instant messaging came and went.

Teamspeak, Ventrilo and now Discord provided voice communications. Discord is the current 'state of the art' since it allows voice and text, mobile or on your PC and we can divide our private server up however we would like. A DnD game can have its rooms while people playing a game can have theirs.

Tundrra : That's a hard one to guess, I remember AOL messenger and ICQ chat were big in the early days for coordinating outside of the game. Forums for the longest time ruled guild communication, but it has fallen out of use with the rise of Discord.

Personally along with Garadian we are trying to bring people's focus back to forums where lengthy discussions can happen. With Discord the topics change too fast for any real topics to be chimed in on.

We have of course Facebook, and twitter... and most recently instagram and im sure we will keep adapting as the new popular communications methods become common use.

Lasarian : Right now we communicate mostly via Discord, so that, or some version of that most likely, as a group anyway. We also communicate individually by email, phone, text, etc.

Garadian : The website is very useful, Newsletters, Guild application, Guild Charter, all kinds of documentation and history, but primarily on the day-to-day, more and more is being done on Discord. Provided that sticks around that long, I imagine we’ll still be there, unless they stop support and something new comes up. I do think websites will be around for a while though.

Bard : Currently it seems Discord is the primary method (along with in-game chats in each game). This has evolved from the old days where it was a message board on our old site, which itself was an evolution from just in-game chat and HC minutes being emailed to members.

Aglavalin : I like using a message board on a website because it is a long term archive and each thread is often just one topic, so you can follow a conversation easily. We do use Discord now but that is more of a chat room where it is almost impossible to follow many conversations after the fact.

48) Have you ever thought of creating some kind of guild grouping/confederation, or

perhaps you've already considered joining one? If so, why not?

Sean Stalzer : The Syndicate exists for its members. We have a shared passion for gaming (online gaming.. tabletop gaming etc..) and the guild is our community, of people we know well and have built strong friendships with, to enjoy that hobby. There are hundreds of members. There is really no need to think larger than ourselves. We are self-sufficient and membership is tightly controlled so we know who is a member and we only add people with similar values to ours.

Tundrra : Nothing outside of games, nothing guild wide, just alliances within the games, we allow our branch leaders to make connections with other guild leaders of similar charters for raids and in game content alliances to make doing large group content possible.

Lasarian : We had some allies off and on, Royal Black Watch was the more enduring relationship we had.

Garadian : We have had Alliances in the past and currently do in one of our games (Neverwinter), but if we’re talking a confederation such as the ones youtubers use, probably not. My fear is that some of our traditions and customs would melt away as we became part of the collective.

Bard : While playing DC Universe Online I was a member of a group called Freedom Reborn, but as the game waned, so too did the membership.

Aglavalin : I shy away from grouping with multiple guilds because of the conflicts which always arise due to idiots often in charge or drama queens causing chaos. All the time and energy spent trying to keep a multi guild alliance working is only taking time away from keeping your own guild running well. Not a good idea most of the time.

49) If you sometimes receive alphas or betas, you've probably been close to studios, and have you ever had conflicts with some of them?

Sean Stalzer : I have no experience in a studio conflict.

Tundrra : Not that I was ever aware of. Not directly, not, like, guild vs. studio or anything like that.

Lasarian : Not that I was ever aware of. Not directly, not, like, guild vs. studio or anything like that.

Garadian : No.

Bard : Nope, never.

Aglavalin : No, I have had mostly good experiences with alphas and beta games. The worst thing that happens is the devs do not listen to the players and the game suffers because of it.

50) I've noticed that for a group of friends or a guild to hold together over such a long period of time, there needs to be what we might call a “guardian”, who ensures that the group remains cohesive and continues to exist over time. Are you one, or is this just a « theoretical » concept? And with that in mind, can it be difficult to find new fellow players who might be afraid of not being able to join a group of friends who've known each other for decades (it's sometimes difficult to join a guild/clan that's been in place for at least a decade, as the new recruit may be of a lower age than the average guild member and therefore not fully understand their conversations, jokes, feel alienated from the general atmosphere and feel like an intruder)? What's your opinion on this for your guild, other guilds and even groups of friends (who met via the Internet and on which groups are mainly active)?

Sean Stalzer : There does need to be some level of central presence that makes decisions.. manages things like the websites, communications platforms, bank accounts (if a group has those), taxes (if they also make money or are a non-profit) and all those sorts of things. I play that role for The Syndicate.

You are accurate when you point out that most groups cease to exist when that person moves on. As for being intimidating to join a guild like ours? Sure. It would be except that we only recruit people we know well. So everyone who joins already knows some amount of members that can serve as mentors and guides to get settled in. We don't let "jerks' join so people are always welcoming.

For The Syndicate I certainly fill that role but we also have lots of members who have been here 10... 15.. 20.. 25+ years who also fill that role. They also ensure new members become part of the team and build their own set of shared stories and experiences.

Tundrra : I believe my job as a High Council is to be this guardian, the HC is here to keep the overall infrastructure together. So if a player leaves a game, they are still in the "guild" and are subscribed to our social media, discord and forums so they will stay in the know about the next big game to come out when we are building a new realm, or hear about important guild related news. So they know when to come back and how to find their old friends they have been playing with for years.

Finding new members is easy enough, when a recruit joins a game I doubt they realize how old NOR really is, sure we advertise it but they only see the bubble of the game they are in. But your right I'm sure some of those old relationships become groups of players that click and group a lot in game and new players could feel awkward jumping in. I like to think our guild is good at inviting those new players in to fill their group for a dungeon crawl though.

Lasarian : Assimilation is always a challenge; however, we have members that range in age from preteen to retirement. Usually, our common ground is the games we are playing and we make an effort, through our own guild culture and from our officers to show people around, help them out and integrate them into the group. Usually, I’ve found, if you give people half a chance they find their way pretty good.

Garadian : I’d consider myself a ‘guardian’ type of person. What I find helpful is to treat every new member with respect, bring them into our chats, sometimes talking about our guild history, bringing them up to speed on our customs, ways, traditions through repetition, adventuring with them and making them a part of the in-group as soon as possible so they don’t feel alienated. The goal is the entire guild needs to be in this in-group. As I do this, I set the example for other guild officers as well to do the same. It does seem very effective.

Bard : We all have a little bit of that when we put forth content and/or perform leadership duties for our guild. When I was Duke of the EQ branch I put out weekly updates on our front page of things going on with the branch. Tundrra has taken that and fed it steroids which had been fed other steroids. He has really been the standard-bearer of standard-bearers for a very long time now.

Aglavalin : New OutRiders has survived because we have a good structure which shares the daily duties among many members. This helps prevent burnout. We also have many leaders with active High Council members so if one or more leave for whatever reason, there are enough other leaders who are active and will take over and replace them in time.

We do have a lot of members who have been around for 20+ years and like to pop in once in a while and say hi and sometimes offer help or opinions when needed. I think this strength makes more people want to join than scares them away.

51) Haven't you ever thought that your guild can sometimes operate like a company, in particular if you often do raids or are particularly involved in competitive matches in PvP? And if this not particularly your case, isn't this a reason why guilds can disband (shared time with others members for the guild community goals taking too much precedence over others solo progression activities inside and outside the game, resulting in fatigue and lassitude from one's role as a member and perhaps in the longer term a withdrawal from guild life)?

Sean Stalzer : The kinds of entities you describe are often very successful for a very limited time period and for a limited objective (such as within a single game or type of game). They tend to breed a culture of drama.

There is often turnover that creates more drama. And eventually, all of them fail. We avoid that kind of model. It does have short term benefits but if the objective is to be a team of friends for years to come, that model doesn't work.

Tundrra : Personal Life vs Game Life is always a balance, we always say personal is more important, and a player leaving a game, isn't quitting the guild but taking a Leave of Absence. They can leave at any time without consequence and are welcomed back in this game or the next. It is the same for Officers of the guild, the only ones we like some extra notice on is Branch Leaders.

Ideally from the start we ask the Branch Leaders to start training a potential successor, of course this doesn't always work. Sometimes the branch is just too new and hasn't found its footing before the branch creator leaves, but we have also had a lot of success like Neverwinter and the Old Republic.

Even at the Highest Level our High Council members can leave at any time and many have over the years. There are always a handful of us, so if one leaves we have time to find a suitable replacement before another leaves.

The Council is set up like a business, the guild is registered as a nonprofit organization, so every year we update the Real Names of the sitting council with the government in case there ever arises a need for some sort of issue over property, like web domains. We have weekly meetings amongst the high council, and require branch leaders to check in once a month to be sure everything is ok in their realm.

Lasarian : Maybe not a company, per se, but certainly any group of human beings, priorities will shift, resources will be reallocated (time, attention, etc.) and of course, the needs or wants of the members may change. They might have had sometime specific in mind when they joined and the guild is just not meeting their needs. Perhaps through no fault, maybe it’s just not how we are set up or maybe the player’s interests and priorities have changed. It happens all the time.

Garadian : I have never had this feeling with New OutRiders, though I did moonlight for a time with one that did feel like a corporation and I’m quite proud NOR doesn’t feel that way. Again, I find the way to stay cohesive is to cater to everyone’s playstyle as much as possible without favoring one particular way. Even hardcore raiders need a bit of silliness from time to time.

Bard : Gaming guilds are more like a sports team than a company, but they are the same in that they both have leaders and some sort of chain-of-command (whether formal or informal).

As I’ve gotten older and the old crew I used to game with years ago has left gaming, died, or just moved on to other types of games, I’ve found that I’m not quite enamored of jumping into a game just because my guild is there as what I’m looking for is my old friends, rather than the guild itself. And those days are long gone.

Aglavalin : Yes, everyone burn out or gets busy with real life sooner or later. Our members often come and go, serving if they can. It adds a lot to our continuity over the years.

52) Have you ever seen or even remotely participated in any gaming/guild social networking initiatives?

Sean Stalzer : Yes, The Syndicate offers its own versions of those. We have monthly get-togethers in real life for folks who live near each other.. annual LAN parties.. annual Board Game events.. annual 5 day conference... annual charity raffle.

Tundrra : No I have not.

Lasarian : I guess the closest thing to this that New OutRiders (NOR) participated in was alliances with other guilds, in which, we would share dungeon or raid space with each other, pool resources, assist each other with quests, etc., on a short or long-term, formal, standing basis ... we would have access to each other's forums, sometimes guild halls and vaults, tag characters as ambassadors into each other's guilds.

On a purely social level, I do recall a time when I was approached by a particular guild master asking if NOR would accept two of his members. These particular members (who I knew well and liked very much) were semi-closeted gay players and were having a difficult time in that guild and the guild master thought they might be more comfortable and welcome in New OutRiders and could be more of their authentic selves without fear of recrimination. So, they transferred from that guild to NOR.

By way of another facet of "social networking" although not between guilds, but among our own, we would often hold guild-wide events on a particular game when there was a trial or free to play period, where, guild mates from other games could spend a few days or a weekend on a game they might not normally play and interact with guild-mates they don't typically interact with.

We've also had a long-standing tradition of allowing our kids to play online, only if their characters are tagged into NOR. This did result in the occasionally "involuntary" babysitting, but for the most part, it was a way to provide a safe, secure environment online where we could be confident of the people our kids were interacting with amongst our guild mates. To my knowledge, this has never let us down.

Garadian : In a loose way, yes, personally, I’ve joined channels in a couple of games I’ve led in the recent past designed for guild masters to share ideas and tips. It’s very casual, but it’s also a good place to vent with like-minded people about situations a non-officer member wouldn’t necessarily encounter on the day-to-day.

Bard : Not that I know of.

Aglavalin : I have been very active in the Star Citizen community for the last 10 years. I have helped make some improvements and changes over the years through my streaming the game live and networking with other players. I know that employees of the gaming company did spend time watching me and listening to what I was saying and doing.

I like to think that I have helped steer the development in the direction it has gone, just like many influencers have. It depends on the game devs and how much they listen and care about what players are saying.

55) How do you envision sociability in gaming in the next 30 years? Can the conceptual term of guilds, clans, or even esports structures evolve and ultimately become completely different from what it was originally rooted in (a gathering of players who share common goals and values)? Because today, I see a lot of online games where, ultimately, people play alone in their own corner. It can be viewed as a bit paradoxical to want to be in a multiplayer environment via the internet (i.e., with people from all over the world) but to only want to play alone?

Sean Stalzer : It is paradoxical yet the vast majority of players play alone for much of their time online. Most players tend to only come together in groups when the game's content forces them to and they would prefer to not have to do so. Why is that? Because games are often designed around the player being the hero and overcoming huge challenges. Those are often best written and experienced alone. Guilds only came to exist when challenges that surpassed a single player's ability to defeat came to be.

That said, I find through our members that they are constantly socializing even when not in a group or even in the same game with the members they are socializing with. So guilds serve an important social aspect but their "need" within the game is artificial and pushed upon players by the game's content.

Tundrra : With all the console game options out there, I hope that mmo's will keep bringing in those that want to socialize and become part of something bigger. With so many now glued to their phones and not speaking to other humans, I hope we can be an outlet to talk while they game and escape the stress of real life.

Lasarian : Yeah, that part I don’t understand. Playing solo entirely in a game with thousands of players from all over the world. I totally get getting in some down time on your own, but all the time, I don’t get that

Garadian : This is a thought I’ve frequently had. I think social people will tend to be social and still be drawn to these types of guilds. Modern games do tend to encourage solo-levelling/progression, which is fine, but it’s a constant battle to get people to do simple group content as power creep sets into the games. I also find it paradoxical to join a guild and still play alone, but it must be kept in mind there may be other reasons behind that. The best we can do is try to gently draw them out into our social circle.

Bard : This really gets down to the granular level of the person, but also the technology. As people have become more virtually connected (even if that just means looking at a weather app on your phone), they tend to close themselves off from others more than before the internet. Some are just using this as fuel for their desire to limit socializations, some are using it as a substitute for IRL socializations while others are simply unaware of the massive time-sink they happened to be involved in within that moment.

Aglavalin : I see videos of us talking to each other becoming commonplace in games. Star Citizen is already doing this. The game has access to your camera and microphone to broadcast your character talking to others over a screen in game. It is not widely used yet, but it does work well. Not everyone will use it, but it is there for players who want to interface with other players in a more visual way. Some games I prefer to play alone, others I prefer to play with friends.

56) Have you been for a long time or even still now the target of guilds only composed of Player Killers? And if so, how do you think its functioning is (in guilds in general, it is to progress towards a common goal, the PKs themselves progress in order to "forbid" others from progressing)? And do you see, in their conceptualization, the PK guilds close or not to guilds of players who can cheat (in both cases, the goal is to do "harm", but not so much in the same sense of the term)?

Sean Stalzer : Since we exist as a community for ourselves, there is really no such thing as someone targeting us and having any impact at all on our guild and our community. We certainly do participate in games with PvP and we do come across folks who like to grief others. They can be exceptionally skilled players and they can sometimes be cheaters. Often those aspects do overlap but just being good at griefing others doesn't necessarily mean a person is a cheater. That said, there are a great many cheaters out there. When a developer shares the data on how many they ban and how often, it is often eye opening.

Tundrra : We have always had an anti PK position, and we tend to choose PvE servers whenever possible. Some games do require that PvP world, and that has created problems like we had Archage. For a long time our charter specifically was against PvP but that has been removed as interest in PvP games has risen at times.

We have a ceremony when players are promoted within the guild and accepted for the first time, and one of the oaths is “Do you promise to protect the weak and defend the innocent?” I believe this has its origins in the early days of defending against those PKers who would ambush the weak.

Lasarian : I have certainly experienced attention from PK players or guilds, not that I was singled out, nor was my guild particularly, but it certainly has happened, countless times. I started on a PvP server in WoW so it was a regular, daily experience. I’m not sure what the developer's intention was, but in practice it was basically cyber-bullying. One player, or even a group of players, would use the advantage of their level, gear, or both, to pick entirely one-sided fights with lower level players.

An isolated skirmish here and there was certainly to be expected, but camping another player’s corpse and simply killing them repeatedly was all too common. The lower level player had few choices, usually, eventually, they would just log off in frustration. So PK camping was resulting in a player NOT playing the game which, I cannot imagine is what the devs had in mind.

Garadian : In the far past we have. As a guild with an ethos of helping others, we have drawn the eye of some PKers in the past. We haven’t had this problem in modern times though. I am not sure what motivates people in PK guilds, actually, though I am glad most modern games give them a place to do their thing consensually.

Bard : Not that I know of. Not being one to constantly engage in PVP likely limits my exposure to types who would stalk me like that.

Aglavalin : I have never been targeted repeatedly by someone. I do not play PvP but I have been killed by PK many times over the years. I do not let it get me mad and just continue on.

57) Speaking of cheating guilds (e.g. : World First Race), how do you see their future in gaming? Will it be the eternal game of cat and mouse with the studio, or on the contrary are they sometimes the lever of positive consequences for a game?

Sean Stalzer : There are ways to greatly reduce cheating but doing so also means developers having more aggressive control over each account in their game and most players are not currently willing to accept that level of oversight of their PCs and who owns which account etc.. to be safer from cheaters. Until that mindset shifts, it will be a game of cat and mouse. It is a profitable business for people to make and sell cheats.

Tundrra : Our guild is against cheating and exploits and want to keep our reputation as positive as possible. I know I have had to call out members in the past that have participated in exploits.

Lasarian : I’m not sure cheating or these rush to “world firsts” does any good. This reminds me of when Mike Tyson was at his peak boxing career and his fights would last for like, 15 seconds. Yes, he was an amazing boxer and I suppose I understand why so many people were excited to see his fights ... but when they were over within seconds ... as good as he was, I think interest waned.

Garadian : There will always be people who like to see what they can get away with. I highly disagree with the actions of cheating, but it does strengthen the skills of the programmers to build ironclad system mechanics, so there is that.

Bard : As long as humans have lived, humans have tried to cheat at something. Gaming is no different. How a studio handles cheaters and the actual cheating can determine whether the game survives or not. As an example, not long after DC Universe Online released someone found a speed exploit (a client-side hack that allowed players to set their character’s attack speed to nearly infinite).

The guy posted in the forums about it, thinking Sony would certainly address something like that immediately. They didn’t. Months went by with the company giving only warnings and maybe a ban every now and then (but never mentioning the player/account/character). This happened right around the time SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) was hacked, which shut their games down for quite a while. These two things took the game from having thousands and thousands of players per day to only hundreds.

Aglavalin : There will always be players who cheat, hack, steal, and everything else they can think of. Some enjoy it because they get to ruin the game for others. Those players are dangerous quite often. I see this type of activity bad for a game. Anyone who has to cheat to gain an advantage, is just not skilled at all.

58) Without necessarily thinking about the competitive aspect, do you think that some guilds are prisoners of one or more games they are playing? For example, a streamer or YouTuber who makes streams or videos on a theme, who gets fed up and wants to move on, but a part of his community doesn't follow, a similar situation could take place within a guild (transition to a game that for example ends up closing its doors, or that ultimately few members appreciate)? Ultimately, in some opposite cases, wouldn't competition be the lever, or the key to the longevity of guilds?

Sean Stalzer : There are definitely groups or people who are prisoners of a game. In fact, the vast majority of guilds exist solely for a specific game and usually only for 6-12months and then they dissolve.

Some members may stick together and go elsewhere but a guild is often game specific. There are clearly dozens of examples where that is not the case but there have been several hundred million guilds that have come and gone that were game specific.

Tundrra : Streams are for sure in this prison, if you have a whole base of WoW players watching you play WoW and then switch to Everquest, then you will for sure lose your audience. Our guild being a Multi-Game Guild thrives in this situation, we encourage existing players to try the new games, and support new officers at establishing new branches of the guild.

Something I type a lot is "The friends you make here in the *NOR/ realm you choose to play will be with you as you explore future games." We know a game isn't going to last forever and our ability to adapt to new interests is what keeps members around 10, 20, 30 years.

Lasarian : I think flexibility in a guild is key, you must change, adapt, move on, in order to survive. Sticking to an old formula that worked 10 years ago may not sustain a membership today.

Garadian : I think that could be the case in some older games. Especially for a guild officer who feels their duty is to keep the game guild branch running strongly even after they are burnt out by the game itself for the sake of newer members. As far as youtubers go, we did see the case of Asmongold having to break away from being driven by his viewers for a while when he switched games.

If there is active competition, that could help, but it might only attract that particular type of player who likes that sort of thing, though we’d keep the doors open for them.

Bard : They are prisoners only insofar as they allow themselves to be. Some guilds only do PVP games, or even only specific PVP games (Fortnite, CoD, etc), this can be especially true for competitive, professional gaming. I think over time the ones which will last the longest are those who focus more on gaming than the type of game.

Aglavalin : NOR has always been spread out among many games. This has allowed it to constantly stay safe as a guild. If one game dies, losing those players does not kill NOR. It may lessen the active player numbers for a little while, but we always bounce back. A new game comes along, or some of the players who were in the game that died end up moving to another active game where NOR is.

59) It seems to me that at one point, some guilds/clans were formed not in games, but on game launchers. Do you think this is still the case?

Sean Stalzer : I am not aware of any guilds that existed on launchers. The closest I am aware of is for Star Citizen. Long before the game had anything you could log into, they allowed you to create a clan on their website and add your members. People could apply and you could choose to accept them. Once you could get into the game, you were automatically guilded within it.

Tundrra : I do not know, I know steam group, xbox box group and places like that we usually have an officer create a *NOR/ channel so members can still easily game together outside the traditional MMO. For those that stay active with the guild but don't play in one of our active games we have a name for them called NOMAD. They roam around without a home game, participating on Discord or those unsanctioned games.

Lasarian : I actually don’t remember ever forming up a guild branch on a launcher vs. in-game itself, except possibly SWTOR, which did allow us to form our guild and invite members, set ranks, etc., before the public launch. I think devs are well served making tools like these available to existing guilds to encourage immediate engagement with large groups.

Garadian : This one I do not know enough to speak about.

Bard : I have no idea on this.

Aglavalin : I have no idea if those types of guild exist. I do not play on any game launcher other than Steam these days. I do learn a lot about other games from the friends I have made over the years. I keep track of them through Steam or Discord.

60) It's now more “easier” for a gamer to have a good computer for games (oftenly called a "gaming computer", even if it can be expensive for some) to play several big AAA games online at the same time. Do you know (or think) if this is a factor and/or has an impact on the longevity of guilds? After all, the real game environment (room and furniture, living room, etc.) has a great influence on the player, even if some do not necessarily pay attention to it.

Sean Stalzer : I don't think that affects guild longevity. What affects longevity is that guilds are almost always a "tool" that players use to achieve a goal. That goal could be to raid in a specific game or to help level up or to complete group content etc.. Most guilds, if we are being completely honest, only offer that limited value to their members. For those goals that value is important and it is meaningful but it is also fleeting. The game will end or get boring.. or the goal(s) will be achieved... or drama will occur and the player has no reason to keep with that guild.

There are literally millions to choose from. So they switch to a new "tool" to serve their gaming needs. Guilds (or better said the leaders of many guilds) use the members as tools to achieve their goals. Each 'side' implicitly understands this even if they dont openly discuss it and agree to the 'contract' that each is using the other until there is no longer sufficient benefit and then they part ways.

There are very very very few guilds like The Syndicate who are a community first and foremost and the games themselves are our tools to build our friendships.

Tundrra : I personally run everything on a cheap laptop with a second monitor. Currently it runs Lord of the Rings Online perfectly on but it's an older game at this point. I tried playing Baldur’s Gate III on it and had to use the lowest visual settings, which was still rough on it.

How does it affect the longevity of the guild? I don't think it impacts us, as long as there is still a healthy population in older games that don't require as much pc power. For those games that do need the power, Ideally we will have an officer step up that wants to build a branch in that game, and we will help them grow it with others that play.

Lasarian : We’ve certainly had our fair share of members priced out of certain games due to the technology requirements of certain games. Either in performance or simply being out of reach. I don’t know that it has had a dramatic impact on a particular branch of our guild but it certainly has made a difference for some individual members.

Garadian : Theoretically, I think it could if people were to spread themself out too thin amongst different games. I do think a guild thrives on its social members though that will keep coming back to chat and adventure together. It’s not for the fickle-hearted!

Bard : Having a computer which can handle a given game is pretty much a pre-requisite for gaming. That said, having a better computer usually allows for a better experience. When I was playing EQ I was running a lower-end computer on a 26.6k dialup connection. In those days, you had to wait on a boat to travel between continents and then ride it to your destination (this could take a while). My system needed more and better RAM.

The lack of such caused me to have to sit at the back of the boat so that once the boat entered the zone I was trying to get to, I had enough time to jump off the boat before it left the zone (with my character still on it). I had a window of maybe 30-40 seconds to jump, so I had to be at my keyboard and ready to go. Upgrading my RAM not only fixed that issue, it (and a new video card) allowed me to scale up the graphics a good bit so I could see much more of the game world.

I enjoyed my experience with a lower end computer, I enjoyed it more with one which had more system resources to better handle the game.

Aglavalin : Some players will play more than one instance of the game, often on multiple computers. I can do that, and I have like 20 years ago. But it makes the game more of a job than fun, so it is not worth doing for much time. I may have a second account login for a special event, but that is not very often.

61) Do you think that competition (raids, PvP) in MMOs is the key to survival for many guilds? After all, these are primordial aspects of games that have given them their letters of nobility and longevity of at least 10 years.

Sean Stalzer : I don't think there really is "survival" for 99.999% of all guilds. There is merely existing in this moment for the leader of the guild's purposes. Raids are one of those possible purposes. PvP is surely another. But those things don't make a guild survive because almost none of them will actually survive long term. A fraction of a percent do and that is because they find purpose larger than raids, pvp or even the game itself.

Tundrra : I think raids are important, once a game has been established and 90% of the guild on that game is at max level, there must be events organized to keep them interested and interacting, which to me means at least a weekly raid.

Lasarian : Maybe? In my experience Raiding or PvP-only guilds are typically short-lived, at least, compared to NOR. Having a single objective or focus I think is a detriment.

Garadian : I do not. For a static-type raid group maybe, same for PvP, and if that is what the guild is built around, but I have seen a lot of guilds that focus too much on only one thing fail over the last few decades to think it is a good strategy for a long-term guild.

Bard : Absolutely! Such competitions create a need for a group to come together to help overcome those events. Guilds are a natural outgrowth of that.

Aglavalin : Some guilds are PvP guilds, and some are a hybrid of PvP and PvE. NOR has had a little PvP over the years, but most of our players prefer to play with other players, and not against them.

62) Besides AOL, The Sierra Network/ImagiNation Network (May 1991), Quakespy (September 1996) and Battle.net (December 1996), do you remember which other video game launchers (free or paid – or online services proposing online games) dominated online gaming in the 90s and why?

Sean Stalzer : None come to mind.

Tundrra : No I do not recall any.

Lasarian : Those are the ones I remember, I played them all, even Quake, but not with NOR.

Garadian : I think you pretty much covered it with those names, though Prodigy and Compuserve also hosted games. I wouldn’t say they dominated though, I’m hard-pressed to remember names of the games they offered.

Bard : I do not.

Aglavalin : Back in the 90s, I was not using any game launcher besides Battle.net for Diablo.

63) In its original definition, but also in its evolution by players and the way game studios allow/structure it within their games, how do you see the evolution of guilds/clans in the coming decades? Always as gatherings of players sharing one or more common goals? Or something partially or even completely different?

Sean Stalzer : Guilds are almost entirely a tool. They are a tool to coordinate overcoming group content (like quests, raids and pvp). There is no reason for them to evolve. They are a well defined tool for a well defined problem set. They are very effective at that problem set.

And while many folks, at one time or another in their gaming career, have the 'rose colored glasses' thinking their tool will turn into a community, almost none do. The massive amount of time, blood-sweat-tears, money and effort that it takes to pull that off is not obvious but crushes the idea that most guilds will be more than finely honed tools that are very good at a specific purpose until they 'break' (i.e. cease to exist).

Tundrra : It has been nice seeing a greater focus on guild tools being added to games over the years, better guild roster organization, addition of guild housing, and guild boss battles. I think this will continue as the years go by, to help players connect within games.

What we have had a hard time adjusting to, is games that allow players to join multiple games. In the past leaving one guild for another was a painful experience to members, it always felt like a betrayal. Now games like Guild Wars2 allow for that multi-connection, and we have had to adjust our way of doing things.

Lasarian : No, I think you have it. People will look for a place to belong and obviously, that is different for each player. Some just want to raid or do endgame or pvp, others are looking for a richer, more nurturing environment.

Garadian : I think we won’t see too many changes to how guilds in games work, but I would like to see more systems like guild missions built into the games in the future. Also, I’m not a big fan of the being in multiple guilds in a game as Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online has. I think that can take away from communities and it might be in their better interest for the long-term to ;imit them to one guild. This gives staying power in a game as people will generally continue to play to stay with their guild.

Bard : I see them continuing along as they are now. Mainly they are a congregation point for players to come together for help in achieving various in-game goals as well as providing socialization. Some may grow into more social groups (having conventions, IRL events, etc) while some will stay more traditionally based, but it all depends on the members of each guild and their wants.

Aglavalin : I think guilds will continue on and the ones that survive have planned ahead and have good leadership. Games are being created which have better guild tools. This will help every guild over time. There will always be new games coming out with new ideas and features for us players to learn. Game evolution will always grow out into more and more different types of games.

New features with every game. And the occasional game which introduces major changes with game design. Star Citizen is a good example. It has many giant guilds on it, but with the game still in development and not even beta yet, the guild ecosystem feeds upon itself with things like player frustrations, and internal drama. After the game is released, a high percentage of the guilds in Star Citizen will start dying off for all of the usual causes.

64) Do you consider an aging, unpopular online game that has many memorials for its dead players but still has a core of active players to be philosophically (not practically) dead or alive?

Sean Stalzer : If folks are still playing it and enjoying it, then it's still alive for them. Gaming is a personal experience so it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If you are having fun, then that game world is value added for you.

Tundrra : I have no answer for this.

Lasarian : I think we’re getting into an odd crossover of sentimentality and commerce. A studio needs its property to make money, they didn’t design their game to be a memorial. I understand that many guilds and individuals set these up for their friends and that is lovely, but it is not beholden to the studio to preserve those, even if they might want to, if the game is simply failing and losing money.

I would be sad to see memorials to my friends disappear from games once they shut down, but I also understand this is simply an inevitability. Anyway, the true memorial to my guildmates is to continue the legacy of our guild and maintain the friendships and fellowship we all enjoyed together when they were alive.

Garadian : I don’t think it would be considered dead. The lost players are part of the guild’s legacy and if you remember them and their time with us in a respectful way, it adds to the continuity of time in the guild.

Bard : To me, as long as a game has an active and dedicated player base of at least 500 or so players, it’s still somewhat alive. That “life” may be a bit foreboding to potential new players as the core players will be mainly in the high end of the game (leaving new-player zones empty, thus feeling dead), thus becoming a bit of a bar to entry unless the new player is bringing along a bunch of friends (which rarely happens).

Aglavalin : If the game has at least one running server, and a loyal player base of any size, it is alive and not dead. When you can not find a server for it, then it is dead.

65) How do you see the future of MMOs? A new golden age? Bronze or even silver? Do you think that genres such as MMOs, FPSs, MOBAs or, more recently, Battle Royale are likely to have any more groundbreaking games in the years/decades to come? On the MMO side, I'm thinking of Riot Games' MMO, an idyllic WoW2, perhaps Star Citizen or a rare gem from a brand-new, unexpected studio?

Sean Stalzer : As technology continues to evolve and become more and more ubiquitous in ways we haven't even fully realized yet, MMO style games will continue to be an important part of the gaming landscape.

Tundrra : There will always be attempts of something new or a re-hatching of something old.

Lasarian : If I could imagine what the next great hit would be, I would not be employed as I am now 😉 I never count human beings out for ingenuity and creativity. Someone will come up with something, I don’t know what or who or when, but they will …

Garadian : There are a lot of them. Personally, I think Star Citizen, if it ever really goes live, will be underwhelming. Focusing on MMOs though since I don’t know a lot about those other types, I think there will always be a place for new ones as long as they plan for the long term. It’s like getting a puppy, you have to raise it and take care of it too!

Bard : I see the future of MMOs as pretty bleak, at least at this point in time. MMO gaming seems to have gravitated more towards flashy graphics and cosmetics (often obtainable through micro-transactions) to fund F2P to draw players rather than focusing on compelling gameplay.

This is a bit of a catch-22 though as any game seeking to focus on gameplay over cosmetics would need to rely on subscriptions for funding, but with so many F2P games and the increasing transientness of gamers, such a subscription-modelled game would likely not last long before either going broke of going to some F2P aspect to keep the lights on.

There’s a reason older MMOs like EverQuest, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, etc. have emulator communities (which sometimes have more players than the actual game, looking at you EverQuest – The Hero’s Journey).

Aglavalin : As the years march on, the most popular games will have a loyal following for decades. There are already a few games which are still up and running over 20 years past their birth.

66) On which online game you and your guild played the most? On which online game you and your guild were less present?

Sean Stalzer : We have been in Ultima Online the longest. We have played in WoW for its entire life. Of our main games, Everquest is one we officially "left" many years ago but it is still going on.

Tundrra : Here is the number of players that played in each Realm based on our records:

Neverwinter (765)
EverQuest 2 (515)
Star Wars: The Old Republic (475)
EverQuest (467)
Neverwinter Nights (458)
World of Warcraft (413)
Guild Wars 2 (374)
Dungeons & Dragons Online (304)
The Realm (282)
Dark Age of Camelot (230)
ArcheAge (212)
Elder Scrolls Online (163)
Lord of the Rings Online (107)
Black Desert Online (93)
Ultima Online (90)

Lasarian : Sorry, I couldn’t possibly guess at hours. NOR has had a very long term presence on several games, DDO, EQ2, WoW, Guild Wars 2, SWTOR, to name a few. I believe we are still present on most of those titles if not all. There were certainly many duds as well, games that just never caught on with the members or were simply not very popular that we abandoned.

Garadian : I’d say for New OutRiders it would have to be Dungeons and Dragons Online. Personally though, a lot of my years were in the Realm Online, where I must have over 10,000 hours at the least. Off the top of my head I’d say New World didn’t do so well.

Bard : We were a massive force in the original NeverWinter Nights on AOL and had a large, but spread-out population in EverQuest (active branches on 3 different servers at one point). For me, the brunt of my active time in NOR was during the EverQuest years, until I stopped playing around 2005.

I dipped my toe into a few other games NOR had a presence in (Dungeons & Dragons Online, Ultima Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Elder Scrolls Online, etc) but never really got involved in the guild like I had been before.

Aglavalin : I have played as a NOR in over 20 games over the years. Some games I played for longer than others. Most games I will play from about 1 year up to 2 years then I will burn out and move to a new game. I have several games which I have been playing for over 10 years now, and that I still log in and play once in a while.

67) Do you think your guild created more memories in a game where she was less present or in a game where she was active for years?

Sean Stalzer : I think logic would dictate the more presence we have... over a longer time... gives more memories. There are certainly some great memories from games we had short presences in, but there are many more memories from games we played for decades.

Tundrra : Definitely the longer running branches have the most memories, those have the larger interaction between members.

Lasarian : Probably by the laws of statistics, more present and active to be sure.

Garadian : This will mean different things to different people, but a small but intimate group can make a lot of memories, and a large one as well. It all depends on the closeness of the people involved. Overall I’d say they are equal.

Bard : I think it was a combination of the guild being more active and myself being more active. Those times are when the most memories were created.

Aglavalin : More memories from games where NOR was active for longer.

68) Looking back, what do you think of the golden age of MMOs (2000s)? What mistakes were made that could have been avoided or rectified later, but weren't?

Sean Stalzer : F2P is and was a mistake. Not having housing is and was a mistake. Imposing limits on who could adventure with whom is and was a mistake.

Tundrra : Everquest franchise is what I think of the most when I think of the golden age, it was one of the first big MMOs that I dabbled in and when the sequel came out, it was well received, and both are still around today.

Lasarian : Mistakes by the devs or by guilds? I think that question is above my paygrade, or at least I was mostly just along for the ride, bumps and breakdowns included.

Garadian : While I do think we’re in a pretty good place even now and we are possibly still in the Golden Age, I think games like Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot and Star Wars Galaxies were at the strongest point due to how social they were.

Bard : I’m not really sure. The games then were a product of their times and the technology available to games then. They were also a product of what consumers wanted, and that plays a big role.

As time has progressed and games have expanded to appeal to a wider audience, they’ve had to ignore aspects of their core. This is natural as focus changes. Like using a non-digital camera to focus on a single spot causes the background areas to blur, or taking a wider view means less detail, you have to make a decision on what your target is.

At the end of the day, games are a business so if they are going to make more money by mass appeal, that’s what they are going to focus on until something comes along to show an avenue of equal (or greater) profits through focusing on what the core audience wants.

Aglavalin : The biggest mistake I witnessed was Star Wars Galaxies changing its combat system in a way that was not popular. Half the player base left. It never recovered and is on an emulator now.

69) Do you think the monthly subscription and expansion purchase system for an MMO (even if some titles only offer free expansions) will still be viable in the next years, or do you think it can or will run out of steam?

Sean Stalzer : I am sure the marketplace is always open to new business ideas but I don't think the subscription model is dead by any means. I also don't think any one model is the singular or only path forward. A mix of models that appeal to a broad audience is likely a future key to success.

Tundrra : I like having the option of a subscription system, but I think it has run out of steam with all the lockbox micro purchase options free to play games have. I think most games that used to be subscription-only have adopted a hybrid system of offering a subscription and a free2play basic version where you can buy certain features to progress.

Paying for expansions with a subscription I think is already outdated, if you want to keep a player base you have to have content added for them to keep interested, so that is built into a subscription price.

Lasarian : I certainly witnessed first hand some dumbing down of WoW in order to make the game more accessible and although I decried it a little at the time, I certainly understood why the developer would do that. You want more players, not fewer. Pretty simple. To your question though, I suspect there will always be a core of diehard players that will never give up on a title they love. However, most games will eventually run their course, even WoW.

Garadian : Though I prefer the monthly subscription model, I think it’ll go away entirely, because they can make more money on micro-transactions and season passes. The subscription model works because if someone is paying per month, they are more likely to play that particular game. It kind of strengthens the membership in a way.

Bard : I think the days of subscription models are largely over. Free to Play (F2P) is like a drug dealer offering little tastes of their drug(s) to get someone hooked. If they want more, they have to pay and that sale is staged along the lines of “it’s such a small amount to pay for such a good time, you can certainly afford that, right?”

Games which rely on F2P to draw players in largely focus on selling P2W (Pay to Win) components, cosmetics which have no impact on gameplay, simple QoL (Quality of Life) aspects or some combination thereof. Since that’s what makes them money, that’s their focus and gameplay (interesting stories, class balance, compelling fights, fun events, etc) takes a back seat. Some games, like ESO (Elder Scrolls Online) do a better job with it (their bottomless tradeskills’ inventory bag alone is worth a subscription, if you enjoy their tradeskills) than others.

Games which are more purely P2W seem to have a more transient customer base, but are able to stay up and running despite the churn because there’s always new customers coming in and paying to win.

Aglavalin : Monthly subscriptions are not common anymore. They are still around but many players will not pay them. I used to and was subscribed to as many as 5 games at once, in the past. I’ve been playing multiple games for the last 10 years. I have friends all over and I can always find something to do in the game I want to play at that moment.

70) What do you think of the “casualization” of certain MMOs, at launch or after several years of existence? Has this been a drag on the market for these games, with their audience, or on the contrary, the dawn of more majestic days?

Sean Stalzer : As a broad statement... games with a more casual playstyle tend to do well. They tend to allow players to spend limited free time (while juggling work, families etc..) achieving things within the game especially when the game is heavily 'solo' focused. The vast majority of money spent on gaming comes from working adults and not kids. That paradigm shifted years ago as the early gamer kids became adults. Ensuring games cater to them is just good business sense.

Tundrra : If the devs are casual and not making new content then the game won’t last, if a guild is too casual then players lose interest and leave. you need a good middle ground. You don't want to pressure someone to play, but when they do play you need content and events planned so they have something to be there for.

Lasarian : Neither really, I think it is a means to extend the lifespan of the property and that’s totally fair on the part of the devs. Just like guilds, even more so, because millions of dollars are on the line, they have to adapt to fit the changing climate.

Garadian : That’s a tough question. Casualization, though not that great for players that want a real challenge, is great for the social scene. Hopefully these companies are able to cater to both.

Bard : I think it’s something which has to be done to attract new players once the brunt of a game's player base reaches a certain level of progress in the game.

When MMOs began, the brunt of players were young (teens to mid or late 20s), so they had lots of time to play (meaning developers could create more grindy activities). As that first generation of MMO’ers aged and progressed, more games were created and this diffused that core audience out among the growing number of games. In order to keep them, games had to focus on constantly creating new content while that audience dwindled (due to a lack of excess time to grind as they aged into roles requiring more of their time like marriage, degrees, professional work, etc).

New players usually don’t like logging into a new zone in an MMO only to find it largely empty. They not only want others around to ask questions of, but they want others around to interact with (whether that’s grouping, chatting, or just watching them run around and kill stuff). The fewer players in those starting areas, the more difficult the game can be to the new, unfamiliar player (especially if it’s their very first MMO).

So something has to be done to drive new characters being created and playing through the new-player zones and that usually ends up being some form of casualizing.

Aglavalin : Any game where the devs evolve the game over years can survive as long as they listen to the player base. Keeping the game the same game style as it started is important to retain players.

71) Do you think there was a MUD bronze, silver or golden age before MMOs?

Sean Stalzer : Probably not because the gaming population was much much much smaller then. In the days of MUDs (which were a great deal of fun in their own right) you could measure the total gamer population in the thousands to tens of thousands. We are now measuring gamer populations in the hundreds of millions.

Tundrra : That I don't know, I never played any MUDs. My first college girlfriend was big into MUDs, and I remember we traveled cross country and slept on the floors of players she met through the MUD she played and that was fun.

Lasarian : I’m sure there was, but I’m afraid I don’t remember it clearly. I certainly played a few back when I was 14 – 16 y/o … you know, about 150 years ago …

Garadian : I do. That’s all that we had at the time, though gamers weren’t as common I think, it was kind of more on the ‘nerdy’ side of things. Some of them are even still being played, mainly because great friendships and memories were made there!

Bard : I think the bronze age would have to be the old computer games like Zork, which lasted through the Atari years of the 80s. The 90s with its 2nd gen consoles and early online games, going through until ~1999 was the silver age. I believe EQ heralded the golden age, which then probably ended somewhere around 2007-2010.

72) How much do you think your online gaming experience can be altered when you play alone and with others players?

Sean Stalzer : Most folks tend to prefer being alone, even when online and in guilds. Guilds exist primarily to overcome forced group content and not because players naturally want to be in guilds. If you think about gaming, it is generally about the person being the hero and overcoming world altering challenges. Solo gameplay is what got most people into gaming and they still love being the hero.

Tundrra : There is a huge difference to me, that human socialization interaction makes the game way more appealing. Games that have that grind of questing is a lot easier when you have people to talk to or have the similar objective. Running dungeons with players, especially players that know your game style keep it from getting boring.

Lasarian : Dramatically. It’s a completely different experience.

Garadian : I enjoy it sometimes, it’s always great to meet new people and if they are the kind of people I really enjoy being around, then I can offer an invite into our guild, the more the merrier! We do try to not be a closed system where we only play with each other at all times.

Bard : It’s probably altered quite a bit based on the game, as what can be accomplished alone is usually less than what can be accomplished with a group. And there’s also the aspect of social interactions while playing (even if you are solo’ing something).

73) What is your first memory of gold farming? More generally, do you remember on which game farming began, and on which its popularity grew? Do you know the origin of the pejorative term “Chinese farmer” in online games? Were there popular gold/item resale sites at the time? And what was and is your opinion on farmers in the 90's & nowadays?

Sean Stalzer : Ultima Online is certainly where the term came to exist. It definitely spread far wider than that and anywhere you could make a dollar, someone tried to do it. But for some years, Ultima Online was the big-dog and people sought to exploit that by selling things to gamers.

Tundrra : Everquest II was the first time I saw it. World chat will fill up with advertisements, private messaging would blow up with messages for selling. You would go off to find a NpC that dropped an item you needed, and a bot would be there camping the spot to steal the loot for resale. Overall it was annoying.

Lasarian : I do remember that, it was on WoW, I’m not entirely sure where the term came from factually, it was the general belief that large online farms of players based in China were employed to gather resources and sell in-game items for real world money.

Garadian : I’ve never bought gold, but my first experience coming across them was definitely in World of Warcraft. I wouldn’t consider “Chinese Gold Farmer” a pejorative though. Many of them were indeed working out of group centers in China. I actually played WoW with a guy who would farm gold all day then was chuffed to play with Americans when he went off shift, he happened to be from China as well! I do remember some resale sites, but not the names of them.

Bard : My first memory is that of a co-worker who was in the EverQuest guild Fired of Heaven. This guild did the majority of server firsts during the first years of the game. As such, they were also some of the first to offer items they had gotten from high-end fights for real-world money (through Ebay). My co-worker bought his first large-screen TV (which was something like $3k-$5k) with the money he made selling items this way.

I’ve never really cared for real-world sales, but I certainly understand them. Overall I don’t think they are a problem by themselves, but rather that the problem comes in when too many people are engaged in it (and thus begin playing the game with the primary goal of farming something to sell for real world cash).

74) As far back as you can remember, which MUD or MMO was the first to implement the monthly subscription and expansion system, and could you explain why? How did you approach this business model? In what way did it not put you off (whereas some younger players have not played certain MMOs, notably because of the paid subscription and multiple paid expansions)?

Sean Stalzer : Prior to Meridian 59, The Realm and Ultima Online (which were all around at roughly the same time) the main way to play online was either through dialing into a BBS (some of which did have fees but most did not) or America Online. AOL sold you hours of time. That stressed people out as it was an early form of micro transaction that you HAD to buy or you couldn't play. Ultima Online certainly normalized the monthly fee and it's been with us ever since.

Tundrra : I think all the early MMOs I ever played were subscription. I always justify it as I can pay $10 a month for 100 hours of entertainment compared to $10 to a movie theater for 2 hours of entertainment.

Lasarian : To my knowledge, the first monthly subscription model was implemented on ImagiNation Network after AT&T bought The Sierra Network and it was vastly superior to the horrible metered by the minute previously used. I’m not joking, at the time people were getting $500 - $1,000 credit card bills because The Sierra Network was charging by the minute to play.

Garadian : That was a long time ago, I think it would have to be Ultima Online for monthly sub though, or Everquest maybe. Definitely Everquest as far as expansion packs goes, though. Paying has always been a thing though, even in Neverwinter Nights there were times they charged by the hour, same with playing Shadow of Yserbius on non-peak hours. This led to 300-500 bills at times, had to pick up a second job at one time to feed the habit!

Bard : The first MMOs were run by online services like ImagiNation Network and AOL. They charged an hourly fee to access the service and the games were a part of their service, this could be viewed as the first subscription-based MMO. Outside of that, 1996 seems to be the year when MMO subscriptions really began with The Realms Online and Meridian 59 both releasing as subscription models. Along with this, at the end of 1996 AOL went to a monthly flat subscription model and was wildly successful with it.

Online billing wasn’t a thing back then, neither were online stores, so a subscription model was the only real option.

Because of this, people generally played only one game at a time, perhaps two at most. This was likely a barrier to entry for a lot of players, but it was also a barrier to leaving and it caused developers to focus on compelling play rather than eye candy because that was where the profits were.

75) Have you ever been seen in a positive or negative light by certain people on the outside (i.e., from their point of view, find it odd or incredible that a close-knit group of friends, who only know each other virtually and incidentally through real-life encounters, are still around three decades later, and with online games as their main medium)?

Sean Stalzer : When you are the best at something there are always those who try to put it down. So yes, we have seen plenty of negative people over the 30 years we have existed that try to diminish the success of the community with their words.

They all fail to realize that nothing they say has any actual impact on the private community as our self-worth has nothing to do with their view of us. It's all about friendship and using a common hobby (gaming online.. TTRPGs.. board games etc..) to build those friendships.

Tundrra : So far I have only seen the positive of these long term relationships. As I mentioned earlier, having such easy access to Voice Channels and not just in game text has made these friendships stronger.

Lasarian : Less so now, more so in the beginning. “What do you mean you met online?” was met with a fair degree of skepticism. You have to remember at the time there were no online dating sites, or apps, no social media of any kind. It was all new. Even I was very guarded by what I shared of a personal nature online, for many, many years. I still am of course, but certainly I am more open about certain things with certain people.

Garadian : In the 90s I got raised eyebrows by a few co-workers if I ever talked about that kind of thing, but they nerded out about hunting and fantasy football, so I’d say we broke even.

Bard : Absolutely and it’s perfectly normal to do so. People who engage in niche hobbies or interests, especially when they engage deeply, are going to be seen at least as a little odd (at least in that light) by those who aren’t interested in that endeavor at all. I would have loved it if my family and RL friends had shared my interest in MMOs, but they didn’t. C’est la vie.

76) How many members in total are there in your guild, and on which game are you the most active? On which game have you been active the longest, and on which the shortest?

Sean Stalzer : There are over 1,200 members. We have members who have been with us almost the entirety of our existence. We add 10-12 members per year right now so it's safe to say a friend or family member probably joined in the past 30-45 days. As for the shortest game, Shadowbane only lasted a few months. I’ve answered the rest previously.

Tundrra : Currently we have 299 Active Members Consisting of:

5 High Council Officers
29 Realm Officers
161 Active Members
100 Active Recruits
4372 Total Members and Recruits Since 1992!

Our most active games are:

Neverwinter : 67 in NW
Final Fantasy XIV : 46 in FF XIV
Star Wars: The Old Republic : 39 in SWTOR
The Elder Scrolls Online : 38 in ESO
Guild Wars 2 : 36 in GW2
Lord of the Rings Online : 28 in LotRO
NOMAD : 17 in NOMAD
Dungeons & Dragons Online : 15 in DDO
TableTop : 8 in TT

Lasarian : These are questions for Tundrra. According to our own website we currently have roughly 300 active members playing on around 10 games and going back as far as our records go, a total of almost 4,400 members in our history. Apparently we are most active currently on NeverWinter, followed by FFXIV, SWTOR, GW2 and ESO.

Garadian : I’ll leave this one to Lord Tundrra!

Bard : Currently I think there are around 180 members with the Neverwinter branch (“Duchy”) being the most active (61 members) and the DDO branch being around the longest thus far. That’s just from my looking back at the last High Council meeting minutes where they did the monthly duchy totals, so for a more accurate accounting you would probably want to talk to Tundrra.

77) If the guild has been tight-knit for many years, has this been the case since the very beginning? Or were the first days/weeks/months complicated in terms of management? Or even some periods long after the guild was created?

Sean Stalzer : Oh no. The first couple of years were chaotic. For some part of that time there wasn't even a game to play as there was a big gap between the pre-alpha of UO and the launch. So recruiting was much less strict and that resulted in plenty of bad-apples getting in and causing drama. That locked down after a few years and became what it is today.

Tundrra : From what I have read in some of the history articles things were very complicated in the early days and full of drama, nowadays it is pretty rare that we have in-fighting. In private council chat we will debate about things then vote but we haven't had a any hot-topic problems in the past decade.

Lasarian : Absolutely not. The beginning was quite fraught and drama and internal conflict plagued us for many years. It took a very long, concerted and deliberate effort to regroup from a period of particularly high drama and internal strife to basically re-birth the guild in a new image, many, many people worked long and hard to realize our shared vision for a calmer, stable future for NOR, but we did it.

Garadian : In my experience of the guild, it’s always been tight-knit. Even as a new recruit, I was quickly brought into the group and welcomed though I never felt any signs of a clique.

Bard : A guild is just like any other social organization. You’re going to have groups who gel better together, possibly to the point of forming “cliques” and you’re going to have those who are going to look at things in such a way that it causes strife.

78) Has your guild membership led you to engage in IRL activities that you'd never have suspected before? What impact has this had on you, both inside and outside the guild?

Sean Stalzer : Sure. We have an annual conference each year for 5 days. We have a charity raffle each year. We have LAN parties, monthly dinners, board game weekends, D&D groups etc... We have picnics and attend weddings and all sorts of real life activities.

Monk : The most notable activity is our annual Guild Conference, “SyndCon”. SyndCon is the single greatest event that our Guild hosts. In a guild that can host a thousand plus members worldwide, once a year dozens upon dozens of members (a few times near 200 members) get together for 5 days of putting faces to names and solidifying friendships. Usually there is a plethora of Game Developers there to pitch their games or just to hang out with us (because they too have forged friendships with us over the years).

I have also attended many other events, such as PAX, GameCons, ComicCons and various other conventions throughout the gaming community.

Kitiara : Yes - the annual SyndCon conference and a variety of smaller regional guild events. They’re the best really - putting faces to names and getting to know people beyond the keyboard, and working with various gaming companies. I will forever regret not going to the first SyndCon I could’ve gone to when I joined. I was afraid I wouldn’t “know” anybody so I didn’t go - but little did I know, that was the key to knowing everybody.

Coral : Oh yes! I've done all but two of the yearly conferences since I joined, and my 'gal pals' and I usually do 2 or 3 trips together throughout the year, just to hang out.

Kobalt : I have not been to the yearly get-together called Syndcon but I have made a local dinner and I have traveled a few times to meet a few members to spend some time together. I have also been to a party attended by a few members as well as helping one member volunteer for a local volunteer fire department carnival. The in person meetings have been great and I hope to be able to make a Syndcon soon.

Tundrra : Yes the NOR bashes, and meet ups we have had have been great experiences and I look forward to more.

Lasarian : Absolutely! Ren Faires, Conns … vacations together.

Garadian : I’ll have to say no to this. Nothing unexpected.

Bard : Absolutely. I likely would never have sung “The Scotsman’s Song” in public nor visited Rhode Island, nor rode an elephant without my involvement in the guild. These, and many other, events helped push me into being more of a person who was willing to try new things for the experience rather than shy away.

79) Can you remember an MMO that had a very short lifespan (in terms of operation), either in the 90s or more recently?

Sean Stalzer : Shadowbane is a good one. Super concept but was super easy to lose your city and thus all that a guild worked for. In one iteration of the beta, we teamed up with the developers to demonstrate we could conquer the entire map in a weekend and ruin everyone elses success. That does not create strong communities. It destroys them. So a game that had huge potential ended up not going very far.

Tundrra : New World and Archeage didn't last too many years, as far as modern games.

Lasarian : Oh my yeah, there was one in particular that I think barely lasted 9 months … Lords of Empyria?

Garadian : The one that sticks out the most to me was also one of my favorite games in the early 2000s. A pity. A Sci-fi game by EA called Earth and Beyond. It only lasted about 2 years once it came out.

Bard : I beta tested a game called The Fourth Coming (mentioned earlier), I don’t think it ever made it out of Beta. There was another game quite a few other NOR members tested (and I can’t remember it or the life of me) but it never made it out of beta either.

80) What do you think about the production of MMOs using crowdfunding?

Sean Stalzer : Just crowdfunding is really hard to generate the cash needed (unless you are Star Citizen, of course) to make a top tier MMO. Stars Reach just did one that was not about the funding. It was about demonstrating player interest and commitment in order to secure more private funding. That feels like a better use of crowdfunding than hoping the game is a hit and gives you enough dollars. A strong MMO is very expensive.

Tundrra : Camelot unchained comes to mind. January 24, 2016 several members of the guild put money together to crowdfund this game, and I think only a couple are still active anymore. 10 years is a long time to wait for a game, so I don't think I am a fan of crowdfunding MMOs. Interest and priorities change too much in that much time of making a game. I would rather wait till the final days of beta or even launch to try a game.

Lasarian : Sure, why not? I like that players get buy-in up front and instead of just sitting in the cheap seats bitching, they put their money where their mouth is.

Garadian : Doesn’t bother me at all, hopefully they don’t become another Star Citizen though, especially if I personally donate!

Bard : I think it’s a good (but usually slower) option, but it’s always a roll of the dice for those opting to support it.

81) From the 90s to the present day (although the term and its use date back to the first MUDs in the 70s), are there any twinks that have stood out or made a name for themselves for you? If so, why?

Sean Stalzer : I haven't seen any players that really stand out in that way. Certainly it is not uncommon for higher level players to gear up friends and family with very overpowered gear and then them grind to catch up fast. But I haven't seen anyone stand out as popular (in a good or bad way) because of it.

Tundrra : I can not think of anything.

Lasarian : No one springs to mind on that front, but there were a lot of cheaters in low level PvP on WoW, guys running whole teams simultaneously that just chewed up the battlefield. There isn’t a twink that stuck in mind, but there was an avid PvPer named Spudd that I’ll never forget.

Garadian : I can’t say anyone in particular has stood out to me. I’m not against the practice of doing it though, and unofficially we do help each other with gear and such when we’re new to a game.

Bard : Not especially. For many players, once they get their main character to a certain level of progression, they will want to go back and play some other sort of character and raise it through the levels. Twinking it out with gear you’ve gotten via your main is just a normal part of that process and it’s so common that nothing really stands out.

82) Do you think twinks are better perceived today than they were three decades ago?

Sean Stalzer : I do think that today folks generally take that kind of activity as almost normal. The leveling experience is typically only 10% or so of a game's true content. The end game is what most players rush to get to. That is often why games will make leveling faster over time as more players reach the end game.

I think developers wish that leveling would take far longer than it does, since making end game content is time consuming and costly, but I dont think players (these days) care too much if friends power level friends or give them extra good gear to get leveled up faster.

Tundrra : Nowadays I think it is pretty common to get help leveling, and it's pretty standard for devs to offer options on leveling faster or getting better gear without playing. So if I’m understanding the question right, then it is perceived better today.

Lasarian : They are more common and more readily available to a larger group by virtue of game design. The originals really had to work very hard to get their gear.

Garadian : Yes, I don’t think they’re considered a big deal. Most games are a rush to endgame content anyhow nowadays, so whatever helps.

Bard : I think they are considered as just another part of gaming. If anything, they may be seen as an indicator that someone has experience with the game.

83) [For The Syndicate but Bard still wanted to respond] Apart from PvP, PvE and RP, do you remember your first MMO charity massive event? And which one impressed you the most? Why or why not?

Sean Stalzer : The first gaming related charity event that I remember is our Syndicate annual charity raffle. Beyond that, I don't have any memorable events about any of them. They certainly exist. Our members have participated in them. They are wonderful to see existing in the world and helping those in need. But none stand out as more special or different than the rest.

Bard : The first MMO charity event I remember was First Life doing an event with DC Universe Online (DCUO) about 10-ish years ago. Prior to that, I didn’t even know they happened. I was impressed at how much the players raised, but a bit disappointed as the rewards provided by the game (but disappointment became a hallmark of DCUO).

84) Whether in PvE, PvP or RP or even something that doesn't belong to these three categories, do you remember your first MMO massive event? And which one impressed you the most? Why or why not?

Sean Stalzer : No, not by name. The first one that really does stick out is in Ultima Online and it was a massive PvP war that we facilitated (and talk about on our history page).

Tundrra : I don't recall.

Lasarian : I think the only event that qualifies would be the opening of the gates of Ahn’Qiraj on Warcraft. It was a lot of fun, I enjoyed it, I don’t really have anything quite like that to compare it to.

Garadian : The first one I remember is a sanctioned guild scavenger hunt in Neverwinter Nights. What impressed me was the roleplay of the GMs there. A lot of guilds participated and it was pretty fun to do.

85) With online games in operation for over twenty years, and some for almost thirty how do you see the longevity of such persistent worlds? Do you see them still around decades from now?

Sean Stalzer : The more a game focuses on letting players collect things and have a personal house and play it in short bursts of time (often solo) the longer it likely can last for. People will keep paying monthly subscriptions year over year over year to keep a house that is jammed full of stuff they collected.

Games that are theme park rides generally (and WoW is a clear exception being the grandfather of modern theme park games) burn hot and then burn out.

Tundrra : No, I think once the game loses its initial popularity the creative team is downsized, then content is slower to come out, servers are merged till eventually it is no longer profitable and they close the game. I don't think any mmo can last forever.

Lasarian : Probably not, but I could easily be wrong.

Garadian : Long term games are amazing things and it’s great that they are still around, unfortunately nothing lasts forever though and I feel for the people who have been playing from the beginning when the server does finally go dark.

Bard : Some will be, some won’t. The Realms Online (TR or TRO) for instance has been through about a half-dozen owners and is still going but their population is extremely small, most gamers don’t even know the game ever existed and its most-focused content is subscription-based. I don’t see it lasting another thirty years.

On the other hand, games like City of Heros and EverQuest have found new lives in the emulator worlds (where people set up their own servers and host players on them). As long as the game’s developer doesn’t stop them via legal action, these games will likely continue to live as they can be more nimble in changing their game to fit changing player desires.

86) What's your opinion of private servers, those who want to be as close as possible to the official versions, old or new, and those who want to take more gameplay liberties not present in the official versions ? While most are frowned upon because they're illegal, some enjoy a good image because they're authorized by their original publisher (I'm thinking of the “Project 1999” private server based on EverQuest as well as Warhammer: Return of Reckoning)? And as far back as you can remember, do you know what was the first private server to come out of an online game?

Sean Stalzer : We have always maintained the position that the Terms of Service we all agree to is the 'bible'. Just because a person can reverse engineer the code and stand up a server and change the rules etc.. does not make it right. Folks invested lots of time and money into making the original game and its not right to steal their work for personal profit (or to avoid paying them). When a publisher authorizes it then I think its a great thing that can add value to a community but only when done with the developers permission and support.

Tundrra : Unless a game is closed i wouldn't support a private server, it only takes away from new content being created. If a game is closed then I would be more open to the idea of the game living on for those that are really dedicated.

Lasarian : I don’t remember the first I encountered or which one I played, it was probably WoW; wasn't for me. I think if sanctioned by the publisher that’s fine, otherwise, you’re probably asking for trouble.

Garadian : I’m no fan of the illegal private servers. I think the companies put in enough work without needing illegal competition from their own product. Sanctioned ones do have a place though, especially if so many changes have been made in a game that the players want the feel of the original game. I can’t really recall the first time I’ve heard of a private server, though it may have been unofficial Everquest servers where people could play with the mechanics of things.

Bard : I think the first private MMO server/emulator I was aware of was one for Ultima Online, but I never played it. The first emulator I played was EverQuest: Project 1999. Since then I’ve played on a couple other EQ emulators, a City of Heroes emulator (Homecoming) and am currently playing (and thoroughly enjoying) EverQuest: The Hero’s Journey.

I like emulators, a lot. They can be breeding grounds for new and innovative ideas for the game and IP. A great example of this is EverQuest: The Hero’s Journey (THJ) where they have (among other things) set up the game to allow multi-classing (your character can be up to three different classes at the same time) and revised the game to make this playstyle fun, challenging and compelling. Daybreak Games (the owner of the EQ IP) has filed suit against the guys running the server while ignoring pretty much every other emulator (and even approving of P99).

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that THJ routinely seems to have ~3x-4x the players the live game has.

Another emulator which continues to do well is City of Heroes: Homecoming. NCSoft still owns the IP rights, but had let the game shut down and left the IP to sit idle for almost a decade before someone leaked the data being used by former NCSoft devs to run their own private server. Since then, the game has had a steady population and (after initial legal warnings) has allowed Homecoming to not only continue running the game but allow for player donations to help fund keeping the game up and running (as well as developing new content and powersets for the game).

I think these can provide a lot of good ideas for the live games, if developer executives were wise enough to view it that way rather than as a potential IP rights case. In a lot of long-established games, the development community gets locked into a certain theme or style of play whereas emulators can (and do) blow that wide open to create whole new avenues of new appeal.

87) How far do you think private servers could go in the same direction as the war between studios and cheaters? How far could this cat-and-mouse game go? Do you think that private servers could enjoy a better image with a wider public if their creators weren't thinking in terms of monetary interest?

Sean Stalzer : I think my previous answer spells out my thoughts there. If the developer doesn't support it then its basically stealing.

Tundrra : Personally I don't see the interest in private servers, a mmo is to play with others not a small group or solo.

Lasarian : I don’t understand the lure of private servers and cheating accounts. You’re not actually playing the game, you’re just in a similar environment where none of the designed rules apply to you. That’s not really playing the game. It’s more like, cosplaying the game and that’s almost an insult to cosplayers. You’re playing “a game” kind of … but you’re not really playing the game you profess to enjoy.

Garadian : I think most players would play on official servers, but yes, private creators should not be making money on someone else’s back like that.

88) Staying with private servers, do you think that in a world where games are increasingly dematerialized and fewer physical and where games are increasingly difficult to access or even impossible to find, these allow certain online and solo games to benefit from better archiving (by removing, for online games the questions of monetization by the teams managing these servers) like what emulation can do? To appear or be completely more timeless, so that they can be played in the same way years or decades later?

Sean Stalzer : Sure, I think should a developer embrace private servers (And some games are entirely or mostly based on them) then they can create a community all unto themselves. But it has to be with the developers consent and often their support to keep the model viable.

Tundrra : We have members that want to relive the old days and play the games of 30yrs ago, so i can see that desire to emulate a old game. but i just see an audience big enough to make those last long other than archival purposes.

Lasarian : I dunno, like a museum of online games? I think that could be fun for a lot of people if it was made readily available. I would try it.

Garadian : For the more popular games that aren’t so financially viable to keep live, it would be good if there was a solution, even something as simple as a subscription model at that point if it would pay the costs to keep it operating in the black.

Bard : Absolutely. Having versions of these games be more outside the profit motive allows for more innovation in appealing gameplay. That innovation has been lacking ever since profits have become more dependent on cosmetics and P2W items.

89) On the subject of farmers, perhaps that many of them come from developing countries. Are they therefore untenable?

Sean Stalzer : I think China and India are well developed countries overall and a huge number of farmers and scammers come from there. It is less about the development of the country and more about whether local law enforcement will step in if a complaint is made. Law enforcement in both of those countries really doesn't care if a US game developer is upset at people selling things relating to the game.

Tundrra : I have no information to give about farming.

Lasarian : I cannot confirm that, sorry, but that certainly would track. It is the responsibility of the developers not to allow their property to be used to exploit people, on either side of that equation, but particularly in the developing world where resources and protections are scarcer.

I live in the US, my standard of living is relatively high, I can spend $5 for gold on WoW without any trouble, but that amount of money might mean someone on the other side of the world is working in an unheated warehouse on a computer for 18 hours a day and sleeping on the floor …

Garadian : I believe so too. Gold sells pretty cheap usually on the RMT sites, but 5 dollars or euro goes a lot further in developing countries.

Bard : Farmers, like cheaters, are always going to exist. Their “enjoyment” of a game is to milk it for whatever they can sell for RWT (Real World Transactions). Just as they like farming, there are those players who are perfectly fine with buying items they can’t earn themselves. The real problem is when this becomes so pervasive as to hamper much of the community’s enjoyment of the game.

For example: someone using a botting program to hunt specific things in a specific area in order to generate a valuable random spawn, this might be so aggressive as to keep solo or even group players from being able to earn it themselves.

Another example: gold spammers spamming every in-game channel.

90) How do you relate to roleplay?

Sean Stalzer : Generally not something I personally care about. Within the context of the guild we allow people to roleplay only if it does not conflict with the guild rules such as Guild First/Friends First.

Tundrra : As far as guild matters, we have short ceremonies when we promote players within the guild ranks and these tend to be performed in a role play matter. As far as table top, in 2016, I was part of a group of guild members that created a branch of the guild dedicated to playing tabletop games using Roll20 and more recently the Forge to bring D&D and other rpg games to our online community. We currently have 3 different campaigns playing throughout the week.

Lasarian : I am a bigger fan of RP in the table top environment than I am in the online gaming environment, but I have certainly played my share of roles online over the years. It’s not the main draw for me.

Garadian : I’m not averse to roleplay, I’ve done it while not trying particularly hard at it, but I suppose after years the character from games that we form kind of melds into us irl anyhow. We do very minor roleplay in our guild promotion ceremonies, but nothing too drawn out. I do enjoy watching people do it though, entertaining!

Bard : I used to dabble in it, but as I’ve gotten older I find it a bit too much like work (so much so that it actually hampers my enjoyment of the game).

91) If many people outside video games thought or still think that online games are the antithesis of socialization, how would you respond to that?

Sean Stalzer : I think many people have come to realize that is not the case. A quick Google search shares this factoid: "Globally, there are approximately 3.32 billion active video game players. In the US, 65% of Americans play video games, totaling about 212.6 million weekly players" Not all of those are MMO gamers but they can relate to gaming as a hobby.

It is an easy leap from there to realize that multi-player games offer some level of socialization. And if you care to scratch that surface you can see that organized online gaming is all about relationships which is the underpinning of socialization.

Tundrra : MMOs help players connect, those that might be too shy in the outside world tend to be more social when you have this screen between each other. I find non MMOs too boring when I don't have that extra layer of chatter in the background. However, too much screen time has its own problems and addiction.

Lasarian : I think like so many things, it can be detrimental if abused to excess. However, I would posit that online interactions can be a kind of equalizer … online you are just a free floating human mind … you interact with your thoughts and ideas only, you cannot be judged instantly on your appearance.

Garadian : I’ve seen this case made before by some accounts on X. That kind of makes our case anyhow, but the way I’d respond in person is that we probably interact with more fellow humans day-to-day than someone thinking it’s an anti-social behavior!

Bard : I would tell them they may be right, but they also may be wrong. It’s ultimately up to the individual how far they wish to take their socializations. As we become a society more and more glued to viewing social media on our phones (and thus engaging less with the world), such socializations may end up being the primary method many find left to them after much of their IRL social skills have eroded due to spending so much time lost in scrolling videos of the latest craze.

92) In your opinion, is there a difference between a guild and a clan?

Sean Stalzer : It is semantics. Currently there is no formal definition that differentiates them which is widely accepted by players.

Tundrra : No, I consider them the same thing, different games have different names.

Lasarian : Probably not. Same idea, different terms.

Garadian : It’s a semantic one. Might be because of my age and gaming history, but when I hear a guild referred to as a clan I think first-person shooter or real-time strategy gaming guild.

93) What social contribution has the mobile gaming dimension made to guilds/clans?

Sean Stalzer : Not much at a macro level. But what I have noticed is that players tend to care much less about 'guilds' they join in mobile games. Those are often even more of a 'tool' than a PC based MMORPG guild is. Even knowing who else is in the guild is usually irrelevant. In most games models, you look for a guild of sufficient level or power score to unlock X or Y features. It doesn't matter who other people are in the group, only what level or power they bring to the artificial construct.

Tundrra : I think it has decreased the number of young people playing PC games, with consoles and mobile games, fewer folks by a PCs. Our first mobile game branch in the guild is Adventure Quest 3D. Overall it is a very simplified game so I don't see it ever being a large audience for us but it is a gateway into the current platform.

Lasarian : No idea.

Garadian : In the last 10 years or so, I’ve met a lot of people who got into MMO games because they branched out from mobile games. In my experience, I find this generally amongst some women. It’s a great stepping-stone.

94) How do you view clans/guilds made up entirely of older people? And what major differences and similarities do you see in clans/guilds made up solely of very young people?

Sean Stalzer : I am not sure age makes much difference although it does tend to be true that older games have more disposable income but that is certainly not universally true.

Tundrra : I can't see how either would work well, you need a diverse group in age and experience to keep things lasting and growing.

Lasarian : Again, these are much like social clubs, drawing people with common interests. Whatever floats your boat.

Garadian : We should all play with people we like to group with, have things in common with, and enjoy. I think they’re a great idea, though personally I prefer a mix of all ages with a love for online gaming as something in common. Today’s xxKillazxx guild is tomorrow’s Old Timer’s Guild.

95) Have you ever experienced or considered an online game to be a “scam”?

Sean Stalzer : I have not personally come across a game that was a scam.

Tundrra : I'm sure there out there, failed kickstarters and games that never get out of the early development process. However, I have never felt scammed after playing a game.

Lasarian : Plenty of scams out there, I’ve been more than my fair share, but nothing memorable springs to mind.

Garadian : I haven’t found any games I’d consider an actual scam, though my eyebrow goes up as I wait for Squadron 42 to release in 2026…

96) Do you think you have more fun playing an online game that requires you to farm/grind, or one that has as little farm/grind as possible and gives you access to more instant fun? Why or why not?

Sean Stalzer : Farming and grinding tend to be boring. We look for shared experiences that are memorable.

Tundrra : I hate repeatable quests, so I do not like the grind of repeating the same quest over and over. However I do not mind running the same dungeon with a group, or defeating the same raid boss. Those groups and the people in them make the experience unique and with more and more games moving to a dynamic dungeon, even the dungeon is slightly different each time.

Lasarian : Well, grinding is called grinding for a reason … It's not fun, but instant gratification is inevitably disappointing. I think a good balance of a little grinding, that doesn’t feel too much like grinding, is probably good for me. I don’t mind a bit of farming either, that can be meditative.

Garadian : A healthy amount of farming or grinding is okay as long as the payoff is useful and has a mix of that and the accomplishment of getting the reward out of our time.

97) Looking at some of the reactions on the web, some people seem sad that the golden age of MMOs is behind them. Do you think this is a problem, or on the contrary, can the fact that MMOs are no longer in the spotlight help studios to “go for it” less in developing the next « hit », and thus avoid mistakes that are deemed too obvious? So, by letting the MMO formula “rest” as it is, it may allow studios to try and imagine the evolution of the formula?

Sean Stalzer : People always think the past is gone (but it always comes back around) or that the past was perfect (it was always full of its own issues). The world evolves and communities evolve with it if they don't want to become one of the 300,000,000+ guilds that have failed during our existence.

Tundrra : I have noticed a few MMOs launching or never leaving alpha/beta. Our own guild has had to re-launched in existing games, because of the lack of new games we are interested in.

Such as LoTRO and Elder Scrolls Online. I hope studios will work on perfecting a quality new game.

Lasarian : I think any school of thought that gives up on innovation is a loser. They will need to take risks.

Garadian : I think generally games are getting better and more fun. Nostalgia is a thing though, but I find when I revisit some of the older titles, I find a lot of the memories in those games and lore was formed in my imagination, so the games look quite primitive going back to them now. I think we’ll see gradual improvement in games over time as the corporations learn what works and what doesn’t. I think it’ll only improve!

98) Do you think an MMO can be produced as a hypercasual game?

Sean Stalzer : Definitely. And that kind of game will have far wider appeal than a raid focused or pvp focused game.

Tundrra : No, as I mentioned earlier a MMO needs that complex quality to keep it interesting otherwise it's too easy and loses interest.

Lasarian : I am sure it can. Would it succeed? That’s another matter.

Garadian : I think it can be done and the types of players that are drawn by that kind of thing will go there and have a great time. Hopefully they can keep them going and keep it just interesting enough so they don’t leave too soon.

99) What does (or doesn't) the modern, spatial environment of MMOs like Eve Online bring to the table compared to a medieval-fantasy environment?

Sean Stalzer : Eve is a game much loved by those who play it and it is super awesome to see it have that success. But it is a tiny tiny fraction of the MMO market. Why is that? Because the vast majority of people do not want to lose what they worked for... be forced to pvp... or grind for weeks or months to build up to being powerful. For those that like that, Eve is second to none. But that percentage of online gamers is super small.

Tundrra : Any environment can strive, sure there seems to be more of the medieval fantasies out there, but Final Fantasy and Star Wars have been very popular in our guild.

Lasarian : I blame this on a lack of imagination. You’re right, space-based games are not as popular, but I don’t think that is the fault of the genre or environment.

Garadian : It seems like more players are drawn to fantasy-inspired games than sci-fi, but in sci-fi games, the smaller playerbase seem very loyal to the games. They also come with a harder difficulty to grasp than fantasy games. Personally, I love sci-fi games, titles like Eve and Elite: Dangerous, but they’re not for everybody, though they do have great opportunities for teamwork in them.

100) Do you prefer to fight instanced or non-instanced bosses?

Sean Stalzer : Instanced. I have a whole chapter on Everquest and the non-instanced model in our first book. I remember John Smedley telling me when he read it that chapter made him sad but it also made complete sense. Few people like the idea of having to race the world for a piece of content that may spawn hours or days later again and then do it all over.

Tundrra : A world boss fight is nice, where everyone can join, but an instanced dungeon is best. The group can control what is attacked first and strategize without things respawning behind us or a random player interfering with a difficult situation.

Lasarian : Instanced! They’re harder!

Garadian : Instanced bosses tend to be more difficult and usually make a more challenging trial for guild grouping, but non-instanced bosses can be a lot of fun too and open it up to teamwork from people outside the guild as well. I’d say I prefer instanced bosses overall though, the mechanics tend to be more fun to overcome.

101) Have you ever attended an unusual event in an online game?

Sean Stalzer : Sure thing. Ultima Online has been doing that since the pre-alpha days and they are lots of fun to attend.

Tundrra : We have hosted some unusual events. In LoTRO, one of our officers looks for non-dungeon types of events she can host. A popular one is hide and seek, where a member of the guild hides in a section of an area and we all try to find them. Long ago we had a trivia night in world chat. Once we ran across the world map of everquest two in our underwear as a race.

Lasarian : NOR has held our own unusual events … I believe on one occasion we all made gnome alts on WoW and marched in a line to Ironforge and then paraded around making a scene …

Garadian : As far as sanctioned events go, no, I can’t think of anything unusual. Some are creative, but they make logical sense.

102) Which studio/publisher's April Fool's joke for an MMO and online game made the biggest impression on you?

Sean Stalzer : None of them really stick. They stopped being new and novel years ago.

Tundrra : None.

Lasarian : Can’t say that a single one stuck with me.

Garadian : One of the funniest to me is in Star Trek Online (Cryptic Studios) when all the devices and weapons sounds in the game become just the devs making mouth noises.

103) If the art of cosplay has its origins in the 70s (and whose roots are even older), have any of your guild members (or perhaps you) developed an attraction to it after crossing paths with all sorts of fictional characters or monsters and bosses in games?

Sean Stalzer : There are certainly some folks that enjoy cosplay. It's not as prolific as the pictures during conference season would suggest.

Tundrra : A Halloween not too long ago, members in one of our D&D table top games all dressed as their character.

Lasarian : I appreciate the work cosplayers put into their characters, it’s not for me personally, but I certainly appreciate it and enjoy it in others.

Garadian : This one I don’t know, though I suspect some of the Final Fantasy XIV players could answer this.. (looking at you side-eyed)

104) Do you think that MMO players are more dependent on the game itself or on the human relationships they forge within it?

Sean Stalzer : I think most are game focused. The Syndicate is the opposite. The game is merely a tool. You can replace tools with new ones or better ones. The friendships and relationships are what we build, with the tools currently at hand.

Tundrra : For us I don't think the game matters as much as the humans playing them, we will see groups of players try a new game because of who is playing what. The game of course has to be good to keep them coming back. But we are in many games and will be in many more so that human factor will bring people back.

Lasarian : I suppose that depends on the player. Most I have encountered prefer the company of others.

Garadian : I’d have to say it’s a mix of both. The game draws people in and the guilds keep them in when things get boring or stale.

105) From your point of view, why is e-sport less developed in MMOs than in FPSs and MOBAs or even Battle Royale? Do you think or know if there have ever been abortive or very unsuccessful attempts by MMOs to break through or appear in e-sport?

Sean Stalzer : MMOs take months or years to build a character to "max" and the allure of an MMO is always building to that next tier of power. If you take a FPS for example, your toon is what it is the second a match starts. The skill is in the person. Things are fast paced and outcomes are seen in minutes. That game loop lends itself to real time watching much like a traditional sports game.

Tundrra : I have no answer.

Lasarian : I’m sorry, I know nothing about eSports of any kind.

Garadian : Really good question. I think it would be extremely tough to do so, but who knows, maybe in the future they can pit raid clears or something in some sort of live race to complete it starting at the same time in different instances.

106) At the dawn of the 2000s, there was a flurry of MMOs in Asia (Ragnarök Online, Kal Online, Final Fantasy XI, etc.). What did you think of Asia's growing entry into the genre at the time (even though Lineage had already been released), or even now?

Sean Stalzer : There is very little interest in the western markets for those games, relative to western themed and developed games. Their gameplay loops do not traditionally feel the same to western audiences.

Tundrra : It made sense at the time, 90s anime was becoming very popular and console games were growing in popularity, it only made since that mmos would be next.

Lasarian : I think it’s a big world.

Garadian : I’ve played both Ragnarok and Final Fantasy XI, I haven’t heard of Kal Online, but as far as Asian games go, their mechanics seem more similar to older MMOs with complex spell systems and elemental effects, they are very enjoyable to play, but as western games lean more into cinematic type experiences, Asian games do require a lot of reading and I think that might put some people off.

107) What is your opinion of consumption and the differences in consumption in MMOs in Asia and the West (e.g. I don't think Koreans are bothered by microtransactions, whereas Westerners are much more bothered)?

Sean Stalzer : I think you stated a fact versus an opinion and I suspect it's true. One interesting difference is that many Asian games are designed to be played with 1 hand while the other holds a cigarette since many folks play in a tech-cafe, while smoking. So the gameplay loops are designed around tech-cafe play and the interface is designed around 1 hand wherever possible.

Tundrra : I don't know how things differ to have an opinion.

Lasarian : I am entirely nonplussed by microtransactions, I think Westerners are just cheap and like to whine.

Garadian : I’m not familiar with how people in the east play, really, so I can’t answer this one, though micro-transactions are a valid way to make money, maybe they don’t mind, but I think it has a negative effect on games in general. People generally want to have access. This again, is somewhere a subscription model does well in.

108) What do you think of microtransactions in an online game, and their impact on its foundations and audience? How did you experience the arrival of the first microtransactions?

Sean Stalzer : Those are generally not viewed favorably by The Syndicate community. Free to Play games are generally avoided.

Tundrra : I have not been a fan of micro transactions, it is nice that there are free to play options but I still prefer the subscription base, where you get all the content by playing. I think my first experience was the early days of loot boxes in Neverwinter and the Old republic. You would still have a subscription option which unlocked on the content but you had these extra purchases for cosmetics and mounts.

Lasarian : It was probably on Rift, I guess? Cosmetic stuff for your character. I liked it just fine.

Garadian : Sometimes they have their place, but the way they are used for item upgrades, or expensive bag space or bank space, I’m not a fan of, this should be covered in a subscription model, or at the very least account-wide transactions rather than character based as they usually are.

109) Which MMO launch and which expansion launch made the biggest impression on you?

Sean Stalzer : Ultima Online created the modern, comprehensive, MMO experience that led to many more iterations on the model that came into what is today. Everquest invented raiding. The two combined are the parents of what folks think of today when they talk about an MMO.

Tundrra : EverQuest II for sure, I was there from day one of the game and day one of the guilds launch into it. so that left a big impression on me.

Lasarian : Star Wars The Old Republic hands down. It was very smooth compared to most of the others I experienced.

Garadian : Hands down, EverQuest as a game launch and its Ruins of Kunark expansion. They were amazing.

110) What do you think of the differences that an MMO can have from one country to another (thinking of the differences between the Western version of WoW and the Chinese version, which modifies many elements, but there are, I guess, a lot of other examples)?

Sean Stalzer : The gameplay loops can be radically different. Grinding is much more common in eastern cultures. Solo play is also more common there.

Tundrra : I have no answer, I haven't looked into the difference.

Lasarian : I’m afraid I wouldn’t really know, having never played an MMO outside of my home country. I guess whatever is appropriate for the host culture is fair game.

Garadian : I suppose if they have to be adjusted per region for each culture that is fine. I don’t know any details of the differences, but at the very least, they can enjoy these games the same as we in the west can.

111) Why do you think MMOs are less popular in some countries, and more popular in others?

Sean Stalzer : Access to computers, reliable energy and high speed internet are all drivers.

Tundrra : I have no answer, I haven't looked into the difference.

Lasarian : Disposable income and free time? We have the luxury of such indulgences here.

Garadian : That probably depends on the country, what the people’s priorities are, and what their access to them is, though I have seen a lot of people from all over the world playing these games.

112) Which MMO tribute and/or easter egg has touched you the most?

Sean Stalzer : None come to mind.

Tundrra : I have no answer for this.

Lasarian : I’m afraid none springs to mind at the moment, I am sure there have been some, but it’s been so long.

Garadian : Probably the tribute to Ezra Chatteron in World of Warcraft. Kid died of a stroke after brain cancer, but has a quest in the game that he voice acted after getting with them through Make-a-Wish foundation. Very touching.

113) While artificial intelligence has been around in video games for decades, it's been much more widespread in everyday life since late 2022. What changes do you think it will bring (or is already bringing) to gaming (both on the developer and player side, in game creation and in our personal experience)? And therefore, what do you think of future games that can be developed partially or entirely with AI?

Sean Stalzer : There are people who already play multiple accounts themselves. It is probably not too far off to have a second computer play several accounts at once, for you, following your orders on how to play and what to do. It's probably not that far off to more easily have the computer farm for you while you sleep.

Tundrra : I'm starting to see more and more dynamic dungeons, where the map is slightly different or the extra difficulty abilities change each time you enter the zone. Adventure Quest uses the dynamic dungeon for some of its instances.

Lasarian : I think in its current state it is mostly slop. First of all, it’s not really “AI”, that’s just what we are calling it. It is a collective generative language system that draws from human work to aggregate output. I believe it has its uses, but attempting to shoehorn it into everything isn’t among them.

Garadian : In its current state, I’m not sure if they should be developing with it, but it could add personality to NPCs or maybe even some dynamic quests. If it improves it might even work well as an automated Dungeon Master for D&D groups, that could be fun!

114) For a long time, the presence of Game Masters was a key feature of MMOs. Materializing as avatars in the players' image, they provided a human presence and personified the studio behind the game. Nowadays, Game Masters are a little rarer (although they are still present on some titles), increasingly replaced by traditional customer support. How do you see this « evolution » ?

Sean Stalzer : Many things Game Masters had to resolve can be programmed now. Artificial intelligence will only make that easier. You can detect cheats better. You can detect and punish inappropriate language better etc..

Tundrra : I thought it was always cool to run into Game Masters with their epic gear and seeing them enjoying the world they created. You're right, you just don't see that anymore, I'm sure they are still around and more incognito.

Lasarian : I enjoyed the personal touch of that, although I understand the overhead would be high. I think any studio that sticks to its guns and cultivates human to human interaction will ultimately be rewarded by customer loyalty.

Garadian : I think in-game GMs should make a comeback. It would give the games a little more life, especially during events. Customer service has been lacking for most games in the last 10-15 years, long wait times, very impersonal, that kind of thing. GMs used to be able to solve a lot of issues that it can take 24+ hours to resolve in modern times.

115) What do you think about the creation of content (written, drawn, audio, video or VR) around online games?

Sean Stalzer : There is certainly some market for that but a large number of gamers are not playing for the lore and the story. They are playing with the puzzles and the challenge. So extra content does not tend to reach a large user-base.

Tundrra : I think it is great, it builds a bigger world, it adds depth and lore. I love fan art.

Lasarian : Creation of content? You mean, like fan fiction or playthroughs? I’m personally not a fan, I don’t see the point in watching a video of someone else playing a game rather than actually playing the game myself, but I know it’s popular.

Garadian : I think it’s cool to do, but they should keep the game lore in mind and think of it as a service to the fans and players rather than generalize so much that it’s hardly recognizable. Whatever they want to spend their money on though, that’s their call!

116) In your opinion, to which depth can the gameplay of an MMO be seen as “harmful” to the lore (which surrounds you) and that of your character, and vice versa? (if, for example, the gameplay is made up of elements which are not coherent or logical with the lore, or which can be seen as plot devices, or even gameplay elements which are not coherent with the story but which are necessary for the proper functioning of the game)

Sean Stalzer : Most players don't care about the lore. They want fun. They want challenge. If the lore gets in the way, then eliminate it. At the end of the day a developer is selling an experience. If the lore enhances the experience, great! If not, minimize it.

Tundrra : Games have 1000s of quests to build a story, so I haven't allowed one inconsistency to affect the whole piece.

Lasarian : In my experience most people ignore the lore entirely and get about their grind. When it comes to lore, I tend to pay attention to slow paced games, like table top D&D or Warhammer 40k.

Garadian : I think most games are doing a pretty good job of it, hiring good storywriters, etc. The older they get we tend to start seeing mechanics where people are jumping through the storyline too fast or out of order though. This might be necessary to catch up with your friends, but hey, maybe this is a good argument for the last question, perhaps a movie should come out of each prior expansion that is true to the lore!

117) How do you see the differences between the last day of an MMO (server closure) and the end of a memorable solo game?

Sean Stalzer : You can always replay a solo game. If an MMO closes (like Star Wars Galaxies) then you cannot go back. You only have memories and those are inherently flawed

Tundrra : I have no real opinion, I have already moved on to the next game before a game has closed.

Lasarian : Well, for one, you can always go back and replay the solo game at the end, unlike an MMO, when it’s over, it’s over.

Garadian : An MMO closure is much much sadder than a solo game ending. There most likely will be people you’ll never see again. Maybe the new games just won’t do it for them in the same way, despite the friendships, things of that nature. It’s always a sad day, but nothing lasts forever.

118) In online games, do you prefer non-player characters to treat you as a hero or champion from the outset (accentuating your character's importance in the game and your identity as a player vis-à-vis the game), or as a secondary character taking on major importance in the world as you progress? What differences does this create in terms of attachment to the game?

Sean Stalzer : The vast majority (but not all) people who play games enjoy the personification of them as a rising hero there to save the world.

Tundrra : I don't have a preference, in the Old Republic you leveled up and became more important as the story progressed. However I do not think I became more attached one way or the other.

Lasarian : I think this goes back to the lore question a little. The pace of MMOs is very fast, compared to D&D or Warhammer, thus, NPC interaction and lore tend to get ignored unless you are a die hard fanboy. Even worse, the pace is even faster now with instant groups for level adjusted instances … it makes it more accessible to more players, but everyone is in such a damned hurry.

Garadian : Final Fantasy XIV does really well with this. It starts off treating you as an errand-boy or girl, and by the time you get a few expansions in, you start to feel more like part of the dream team that is constantly saving the entire world. So a slow ramp up as you make your way through the game is what I prefer.

119) If MMOs didn't exist, do you think your whole guild would have come to life and met each other? If so, in a similar way?

Sean Stalzer : Since we are a community of people who share a common hobby of online gaming, if MMOs didn't exist, it would have been harder for the guild to have come to exist.

Tundrra : No, the players are from all over, we would not have had that common interest to bring us together.

Lasarian : Not a chance. The heart of NOR was formed online, without online games, we would not exist. That said, that is not what sustains us now. Our members and leaders do. I could imagine a day when NOR is present on NO online games, but persists in other ways.

Garadian : It’s possible some of us might have met up at a Renaissance fair, or through tabletop or D&D by mail. Similar interests do tend to merge naturally sometimes. Glad the MMOs came around though.

120) In a world where there’s no MMO, how would you have imagined one, with or without roleplay experience?

Sean Stalzer : Similar to other answers, only a very small percentage of people (very passionate and skilled people) actually role play. It is, for most players, a hindrance to the goal of having fun, saving the world and conquering challenges.

Tundrra : Without MMOs I'm glad there are still table top games :)

Lasarian : My biggest criticism of fantasy MMOs in particular is that they basically cribbed D&D, wholly, and applied it to an environment where I don’t think it works very well. Classes? Levels? XP? These are all highly restrictive to the players experience, you tend to get herded into a role you must perform in order to continue to progress.

Garadian : It would have resembled a good Dungeons and Dragons game, probably just playing tabletop with friends.

121) What's your favourite genre of game, and why?

Sean Stalzer : Ironically I like hardcore shooters more than MMOs. I very much enjoy a good MMO but a PvP shooter is my favorite.

Tundrra : High fantasy is my favorite genre. I'm sure it is from the enjoyment I got from reading fantasy novels and playing D&D in high school.

Lasarian : I would say sci-fi space, but such a game does not exist. Alas.

Garadian : For single-player games, I really like ‘Sneak’ type games like the Thief series. They are very immersive and require focus.
For MMO, I’m equal in fantasy and space-based games. I like the teamwork involved for so many of the quests or missions.

122) What do you think of the Classic versions of MMOs?

Sean Stalzer : I am not their target audience. Within the 1,200 members of The Syndicate, probably 5% or less are interested in those.

Tundrra : I'm not a fan, I like the evolution and new content.

Lasarian : They had their charms and their upsides, but they also had their bugs and systems that definitely got better over time. It was nice to go back and play Vanilla WoW for a bit just for the sentimental experience, but I couldn’t do it all over again, and again and again.

Garadian : Nostalgia has its place, but most changes are made for good reason and we remember that quickly when we play a ‘classic’ version.

123) Do you think some player or guild bans are unjustified?

Sean Stalzer : There is always the chance for false positives but the vast majority of the time when a player or guild complains, they are lying. There are definitely cases of mistakes but the vast majority of instances are people lying and hoping public outcry will let them get away with the crime.

Tundrra : No, I'm sure they broke the various common sense rules that are put in place to stop harassment or break game mechanics.

Lasarian : Of course.

Garadian : I think most are justified, but there are cases where misunderstandings are made. I saw a guild not long ago get banned because they put their website address into the zone chat and their homepage had some kind of advertisement on it. I think this could have been dealt with better.

124) How do you interpret what can be seen as a mistake in your guild?

Sean Stalzer : The Syndicate is what we call a benevolent dictatorship. There is one vote on all matters and it is mine. That said, we have been together for 29 years and we are all very similar people. So we very very rarely have a case where I have to make a decision that the entire team wouldn't have made themselves.

In fact, I can't think of a time that occurred in the past 5-10 years. We recruit similar people. We have a set of common values and rules. They have been around for almost 30 years. Things just tend to work and as a group we live the rules and values and enforce them consistently.

Tundrra : When there is a problem or a mistake a player makes, the council normally discusses it in private to be sure we understand what has happened, if it's in the charter, if it should be added to the charter in case of future instances. After the discussion we will give a player a warning if deemed they were in the wrong.

Lasarian : It depends. NOR is big on second chances but there are some definite red lines. Threatening, cyber stalking, overt racism, that sort of thing, that gets you banned pretty quick. There’s always many opinions about who did what when and how, and it can be challenging to try to serve justice as best you can, keep the peace, treat everyone fairly and we don’t always get it right. End of the day, it’s a social club and for whatever its flaws might be, you really have to work to get thrown out.

Garadian : We are pretty democratic about talking about such instances with our officers. If there is room for doubt, then we give the benefit of the doubt and watch for a while. With the rise of AI and autobanning, the game banning or suspending a player can be open to interpretation. It’s really on a case-by-case basis, though.

125) Do you think you'd have better memories of a PvP-oriented MMO, with its emphasis on relationships between players, than a PvE game where certain activities are crucial but difficult to access or even sometimes elitist? Wouldn't this reinforce the idyllic image we can have of PvP MMOs in our personal imagination?

Sean Stalzer : PvP oriented MMOs have far smaller player bases and far shorter lifespans (in general.. there are long lifespan exceptions like Eve, of course) so I think most people will have better memories of PvE experiences with friends.

Tundrra : Yes, I'm sure we would have better memories. With PvE some of the endgame content does require some elite gear and not everyone can attend. In this situation we normally would have a progression night for our top geared, and an intro to raiding night to level up alts and teach new players coming into the endgame the mechanics of the zones. This has helped keep us active and raiding for many years in the Old Republic.

Lasarian : Not sure I share an “idyllic” image of PvP MMOs or servers.

Garadian : It would have to be balanced so that a reasonable amount of members could achieve a goal, this would help players resist becoming part of some enormous pvp superswarm guild that dominates an entire server. It could work but I think it’d be very difficult to balance.

126) Looking back, what do you think of the development of eSports in general? And do you think eSport enjoys a better image today?

Sean Stalzer : There is little value in western MMO esports to most people. There are, for sure, passionate audiences that love them and for them they are essential. But in the western MMO market, there is not a great deal of value.

Tundrra : I have no esport experience.

Lasarian : No opinion.

Garadian : I think it’s pretty cool and in a good position now. It wasn’t that many years ago that people would kind of make fun of it as a esport, but it seems socially acceptable now. The really elite players in these games at least can earn reward for their dedication.

127) Have you ever seen former members come back many years after their departure? If so, did you feel anything special when they returned?

Sean Stalzer : We lose very few people. When we do lose someone they almost always try to come back. I do not accept anyone back into the guild. If you depart, you are gone.

Tundrra : This happens all the time, and every time it is exciting to see and hear. Old members will find a recruitment post on the forums of the game they are playing, or see a name in world chat from years ago, or find us on social media. In all these cases it is usually a warm feeling of happiness to see.

Lasarian : Yes, many times. Depends on the members. Sometimes you have very kind, special people returning and they are always welcome … sometimes … not so much.

Garadian : Many, many times. It’s always a warm feeling when they do and we welcome them back with open arms. It makes me proud of the guild that people do that, actually.

128) What do you think of the possibility of carrying out activities originally designed to be enjoyed with other players in a massively multiplayer game with NPCs only?

Sean Stalzer : There are cases where those can be effectively designed for a fun experience. When done right, I think it is a good thing.

Tundrra : I don't like the npc pet/npc hiring to fill a group. I much rather meet another player, who could become a future recruit using LFG tools or shouting in world chat to fill a spot. Or create an alliance with a couple other guilds to fill spaces.

Lasarian : I think that’s fine, but I suppose we shouldn’t be calling them MMOs anymore. Massively Single Player Online RP games … ?

Garadian : Final Fantasy XI took this direction when they added armies of Trusts (NPC companions). I think it took a lot away from the game to trivialise and soloize difficult encounters that require a group. Not a fan. Perhaps when a game is in its last years and barely anyone plays anymore, but not to a live game.

129) Do you see any notable differences between playing an online game with guildmates and with your children? Are there two different ways of playing the game?

Sean Stalzer : Members of The Syndicate, whose kids also play MMOs, would see the main difference is their kids cannot join the guild until they are 18 so most grow up aspiring to be a member at that point in life.

Tundrra : We advertise as family friendly so we do get parents with their teenage kids playing together. Myself I am not quite there, my son wants to play but isn't quite ready for MMO communities. But these parent/child relationships age, and the children become our leaders as their parents play less.

The best example is Zyera, one of our High Council members, her father was one of the leaders of Star Wars Galaxies when I joined, her brother and her were barely teenagers playing with us. As the years went by she became the guild leader for The Old Republic, World of Warcraft and now Is a high council member, with a child of her own. I have no doubt in another 15yrs, her kid will be trying out their first MMO with NOR.

Lasarian : I’ve had a lot of fun playing online with my kids and other people’s kids. I guess the biggest difference is that the kids tend to be fully engaged in the fun and wonder of it, whereas adults can get bogged down with “finishing the dungeon or quest” or what loot drops.

Garadian : I’d say it is close to the same thing, but playing a game with the kids is pretty fun. It’s easy to anticipate each other and it’s also fun to see what interests them as well. There was one game, Pirates of the Caribbean Online, that I played with my sons and we had a great time crewing a ship together.

130) What do you think has been the biggest scandal in MMOs?

Sean Stalzer : None really stand the test of time.

Tundrra : I haven't followed any news about one.

Lasarian : I guess for me, personally, the sexual discrimination and harassment that apparently was endemic at Blizzard.

Garadian : I’d say any of the Eve Online scandals with corp banks being robbed or ships being stolen and betrayal. I think it’s a very bad story arc to befriend people until they have trust in you and then stab them in the back. I suppose this could be a kind of roleplay, but it does combine both real life and in-game which makes it a bit more unsavory.

131) In your opinion, does the casualization of an MMO systematically lead to a neglect of its role-play aspect?

Sean Stalzer : Sure but most people don't care about role playing. Some do and that is great for them but most players are gaming, not role playing.

Tundrra : Yes if less players are moving to PC MMOs where chat and groups are important and stay with these casual one click games its going to kill that extra roleplay opportunity.

Lasarian : I think the RP aspect of MMOs has been neglected since the beginning, with few notable exceptions, like SWTOR and Baldur’s Gate III.

Garadian : I think it can actually help with its roleplay. When we have less to do, we need to make more stuff up to keep us entertained.

132) If you could rediscover an MMO as you did on day one, what would it be ?

Sean Stalzer : Ultima Online was a wonderful experience at that point in world history since no one had expectations or preconceived notions or knowledge of what was to come.

Tundrra : I don’t know.

Lasarian : Almost have to be WoW, maybe City of Heroes.

Garadian : Again, hands down, Everquest.

133) Do you consider that some people play MMOs/online games just to keep up with their favorite content creators? So it's not necessarily a matter of personal enjoyment, but more of parasocial enjoyment, isn't it?

Sean Stalzer : Probably not. Some do play to keep up with their friends and family.

Tundrra : I don't know anyone that follows a specific content creator that closely.

Lasarian : I wouldn’t know. But if that is the case, it is incredibly sad.

Garadian : Definitely. There was a huge influx of players from World of Warcraft into Final Fantasy XIV when Asmongold started playing it. We even picked up a few as guildmates.

134) Over time, could the excitement created around a game before its release be more valuable to a gamer in terms of its relationship with said game than after its release?

Sean Stalzer : Sure. A great many games hype is not fulfilled when it launches.

Tundrra : Yes the more hype the more excitement to build and find an audience for their game. that has to be super important. When we hear about a new game, we will make a Discord channel for it, so those that want to follow it can easily find each other and help build the hype that might lead to us establishing a branch of the guild there.

Lasarian : If you’re asking me if the reality lives up to the hype, that’s a good question. My guess would be there are plenty of examples where the actual game fell woefully short of the hype leading up to it. No Man’s Sky comes to mind.

Garadian : I think so. Gets them every time, but it doesn’t take too long to see the reality in said game once it goes live. Not all will do well, but generally they seem to do alright.

135) How do you feel when you consider that a studio oversells a game before its release, only to discover that it doesn't live up to your expectations at all?

Sean Stalzer : Folks tend to write that studio off in the future since they wasted money on a game that fell short of the hype.

Tundrra : I understand studios have to build excitement for a game and need to hype up its features, so I have some room for forgiveness. My biggest complaint would be when the hype starts years before the game launch.

By the time it actually launches or loses funding those most excited to play have had their fill and moved on to something else, because what they did experience was unfinished or server wipes cleaned out all their efforts. In the early days I remember that public testing only came out just a few months before launch, and that doesn't seem to be the case any longer.

Lasarian : Disappointment, just like everyone else I suppose. Understanding that initial game releases come with its own set of bugs and glitches that are hard to avoid.

Garadian : I’m very deliberate about games. I never play an alpha, and I always wait for the player reviews to come out before spending money or jumping in. Advertising’s job is to oversell, it’s our job to not fall for it every time!

136) Do you sometimes remain curious about the games of one or more studios, even after repeated personal disappointments on their part, which have led you to the point where you no longer hope for anything from them? Where does this curiosity come from?

Sean Stalzer : The marketplace is so saturated at this point that if someone fails in a game most people just move on and don't look back.

Tundrra : I don't think I have had that happen, the biggest problem we have is that new games enter that early beta stage too early and players get burnt out and tired of the servers resetting their content so by the time it launches the hype has faded or it never launches.

Lasarian : No, not really. If a studio has consistently fallen flat for me, I do generally give up on them. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

Garadian : Yes, for example, as hated as Electronic Arts or Microsoft are, they do have great games from time to time. Not every single one will be a banger, but they’re worth trying out and if it’s good, it’s good. Battlefront series, Sea of Thieves, etc.

137) How do you see the difference(s) in experience, enjoyment and consumption between someone who's been playing online games since they were very young, and someone who starts playing video games once they're well into their twenties (so once adult life begins)?

Sean Stalzer : I am not sure that aspect is what drives enjoyment and consumption. I see folks from both types of gamer-starts who enjoy games similarly.

Tundrra : ¨Play times change, the youth will be in several hours a game time everyday. But adults with family have to find that balance of work/family and play time. So consumption and experience can really vary with age and time.

Lasarian : I guess this would be tough for me to answer. I started when I was a pre-teen, 12? 13? And have been playing computer, console and online games ever since. I would say that over time one becomes more jaded maybe, cynical, less optimistic about new titles. There are in fact very few games that really “do it” for me these days.

Garadian : I don’t think there is much difference in enjoyment in the games, but people born into the large amount of games we currently have might have a little more trouble finding a ‘home’ game, where older players are from a time with less choices and kind of maybe have “settled in” a bit. It’s not always the case, there are some very dedicated young players too, of course.

138) Do you think the speed and immediacy of social networks and Twitch has helped transform the way video games are consumed?

Sean Stalzer : For some people, yes. But there are tens of millions for which that aspect is not a big component. It may be to look up information on some aspect of the game but much less so about watching folks play in lieu of playing yourself.

Tundrra : It has helped with the hype and advertising when new expansions and modules launch. It has helped grow our numbers over the years.

Lasarian : Probably for younger people or the general public, but not for me personally.

Garadian : Maybe in some ways. Seeing your favorite streamer doing interesting things in the game might encourage someone to buy/play the game to recreate that. It is definitely a good way to see if a game is any good before buying it though. Depending on the streamer of course.

139) What do you retain from your time with your guild?

Sean Stalzer : In Friendship We Conquer is our motto and its only that underpins our achievements.

Tundrra : I find great pride seeing the realms (sections) I started out as the branch leader continue to grow after years of not playing that game. I get great satisfaction seeing old members return after many years. I love that the hard work I put into the website gets viewed and its database of our history continues to grow as other officers add to the records.

Lasarian : Pretty much what has kept me as a member for 30 years. Of the many games I have played, online and off, with New OutRiders going back to the 90’s, I struggle to remember a single quest or drop, enemy or loot; and when I stop playing that game, everything I accomplished on that game stays behind, I can take none of it with me.

What I can take with me are my friends and guildmates … and I have, lo these many years. For me, the primary enjoyment of the MMOs was who I was playing with, not what I was accomplishing in-game.

Garadian : As long as people keep coming back to group together, communicate, text or Discord (extra points for voice), aren’t actively avoiding each other or only playing solo, I think what I have to say is : “Job well done.”

Mes remerciements vont à The Syndicate et New OutRiders pour leur participation ainsi qu’au Musée du jeu et à Ken Williams.